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Post by Jim on Jun 24, 2019 0:15:55 GMT 9
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Post by LBer1568 on Jun 24, 2019 1:46:10 GMT 9
Gary have you been in a sleep like Rip Van Winkle? That "New" USAF Emblem was introduced back in 2000 as the new century look. That's over 19 years so "New" doesn't really apply does it?
Lorin
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Post by Jim on Jun 24, 2019 2:20:26 GMT 9
Gary have you been in a sleep like Rip Van Winkle? That "New" USAF Emblem was introduced back in 2000 as the new century look. That's over 19 years so "New" doesn't really apply does it? Lorin |
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 24, 2019 4:34:04 GMT 9
Gary have you been in a sleep like Rip Van Winkle? That "New" USAF Emblem was introduced back in 2000 as the new century look. That's over 19 years so "New" doesn't really apply does it? Lorin
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Post by Gene on Jun 24, 2019 6:46:32 GMT 9
1 vote for Hap...
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Post by Mark O on Jun 24, 2019 7:36:38 GMT 9
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 24, 2019 7:51:31 GMT 9
Mark, It's just a bunch of excuses.
When Obama was in Seattle a small civilian cessna flew into restricted air space.
F-15's were Scrambled out of Portland OR Air National Guard and they flew supersonic to Seattle area and could not intercept the intruder and I don't think they ever located it.
Air Defense is not what it used to be. We had active Air Defense Squadrons around the country.
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Post by Mark O on Jun 24, 2019 8:02:16 GMT 9
Excuses? Wow. That's rough.
I guess my question regarding the response to 9/11 is, what would the ADC done differently? Sure, there were more units in 1979 when the command went away, but that day took everyone by surprise. I just believe there are too many "what-ifs".
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Post by Jim on Jun 24, 2019 10:44:03 GMT 9
Excuses? Wow. That's rough. I guess my question regarding the response to 9/11 is, what would the ADC done differently? Sure, there were more units in 1979 when the command went away, but that day took everyone by surprise. I just believe there are too many "what-ifs".
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Post by Mark O on Jun 24, 2019 11:57:32 GMT 9
Shortly after 9/11 I remember watching an interview with an F-15 pilot who responded to the airliners. Not sure, but most likely he was with the 101st FS out of Massachusetts. Anyway, the reporter asked him if he would have actually shot down the airliner if ordered to. He said he would have, but it would have been the last flight he ever made as an Air Force pilot.
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 24, 2019 12:12:59 GMT 9
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Post by Mark O on Jun 24, 2019 12:54:09 GMT 9
Lots of reasons I suppose Gary, and many are in the Wikipedia article I posted earlier. Please keep in mind however, that those interceptors then were on alert for enemy aircraft entering our borders. Interestingly (according to this article) there were only 14 aircraft on alert in the US that morning. Why? Well, I'll bet the almighty dollar had a lot to do with it. www.popularmechanics.com/military/a5654/debunking-911-myths-planes/Probably more than anything, most decision makers at the time believed the scenario was implausible. I'm sure more specific reasons have been beat to death, and are in the 9/11 Commision's report. I wish I could say the ADC would have been better, but I'm pretty sure their radars were pointed towards our shores then -- and not at our heartland -- just as they were on 9/11. |
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 24, 2019 13:51:45 GMT 9
The blame and fault of 911 rests with the democrats and Al Gore. Its nice that history does not forget. Its people that forget.
If all the security & safety measures were put in place, would there have been a 911?
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/543351/posts
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Post by Mark O on Jun 24, 2019 21:18:45 GMT 9
Nonsense. I personally believe "the blame and fault" falls on Al Qaeda, and tend to ignore organizations and theorists that choose to blame everything bad that happens to our country on the government. (Or the NRA!) It's like blaming Roosevelt for Pearl Harbor. No different than folks blaming the recent troubles with Iran on the current administration.
Oh, TWA 800? The center-wing fuel tank exploded. No terrorism.
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 25, 2019 1:38:30 GMT 9
Mark,,, Do you really believe everything the government tells you ? ? ?
The government once stated that Agent Orange was not harmful.
CIA Wormwood expairments with LSD
Service members having to stand out and observe nuke explosions
Chemicals sprayed over neighbors to see how it dispersed
The list goes on & on,,,,
BTW, We will never know the real truth about TWA 800.
Missile then bomb, and last of all a fuel tank wire.
The story of a dog explosive detection test - cover story ?
They paid no attention to lots witness on the ground.
I believe very little of what the government says or tells me to think.
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Post by Jim on Jun 25, 2019 2:25:24 GMT 9
Nonsense. I personally believe "the blame and fault" falls on Al Qaeda, and tend to ignore organizations and theorists that choose to blame everything bad that happens to our country on the government. (Or the NRA!) It's like blaming Roosevelt for Pearl Harbor. No different than folks blaming the recent troubles with Iran on the current administration. Oh, TWA 800? The center-wing fuel tank exploded. No terrorism. |
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Post by Mark O on Jun 25, 2019 4:22:00 GMT 9
Sorry guys, but I'm not going to chew on this bone any longer. Y'all have fun with your conspiracies.
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Post by LBer1568 on Jun 25, 2019 4:52:25 GMT 9
The "Government" doesn't lie...but members do. Sometimes a lie is important to protect classified missions, equipment, people etc.
I remember back in 1973 right after I got to England. I was working night shift during an "exercise". So that meant 6PM - 6AM. As I was listening to BBC news, I looked out and saw troops rolling a U-2 out of a hanger next to us. About 30 minutes later I saw it take-off. It came back just before daylight, landed and was rolled back in hanger.
As I said I was listening to BBC News. Some English news folks were claiming that US was flying spy missions from England to Israel and providing key classified photo's to IAF for targeting purposes. I also heard Sec of State declaring that no such missions were being flown from UK.
So was the Sec State Dr. Kissinger lying? Yes, but it was for National Security reasons.
Operation Nickel Grass was back at same time. Israel in this War was ill prepared for new weapons Russia had supplied to Egypt and Syria and was getting Ass kicked. We feared that Israel would resort to Nukes should they have to. So Germany declared that they would not interfere in War and as such would not let US Cargo aircraft to refuel on way to Israel. Support included Tanks, missiles etc along with a Squadron of F-4 Aircraft as replenishment for those lost in early days of war.
My father in law was stationed at Spangdahlem at the time. So to work within guidelines of German Government we sent C-5 and C-141 aircraft loaded with weapons to Spang. The base offloaded all the weapons and took older stock from base and then airlifted them to Israel. They also flew a Squadron of F-4 from US and took Spangdahlem F-4's fully loaded and fueled and flew them into Israel and refueled just before landing. Israel IAF pilots jumped in and took off to repeal air strikes. So US did not resupply Israel from, US, it simply provided old equipment and supplies from USAFE Inventory after supplying new stock for Spangdahlem.
And everyone here can probably recall other "lies" told by US in interest of National Security.
Lorin
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 25, 2019 8:12:42 GMT 9
Lorin,,, Two SR-71's were flying out of Griffiss AFB, NY at that same time.
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