dave0164
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Post by dave0164 on Aug 24, 2012 13:38:18 GMT 9
Great points guys. Pat, you are correct that the metal plating should spread the load across more of the spar and not just where the bolts are. When all is said and done, we will build a new trailer for the whole thing that will allow for maximum stability during transportation. Possibly a cradle arrangement with hydraulics for raising and lowering the airframe. More ideas with regard to this will be forthcoming.
Sarge, we're planning on threading the holes in the bulkheads so that the long threaded bolt (3/4" diameter minimum) will twist through each bulkhead and be secured on either side by washers and nuts so that there is solid hold on each bulkhead. You are correct that lining up all six bolts through all 4 spars will be challenging. Just a theory. We're still looking at all possibilities. We want to spread some of the load to more of the internal braces. It's difficult to estimate all forces that might be applied to the rear spar, but in order to keep the bay doors clear for functioning, we are limited in what we can use for attach points. It will be a static display, so the flexing forces should be minimal. Earlier in this thread are pictures of an F-4 cockpit section that is affixed with rear brace legs similar to those we are proposing. The picture doesn't show how things are attached, but I would imagine the F-4 weighs as much or more than the F-106 (cockpit sections being equal two seaters) although I may be wrong. At any rate, it is a challenge that we've been knocking our heads against for some time. By removing as much un-needed equipment as possible, we should be able to significantly lighten the overall load. (Henceforth, if anyone is interested in a spare, obscure 106 part, we'll have a bunch.) Please keep the ideas and suggestions coming. With all the collective knowledge in this site, we should be able to come up with something that will work.
Dave
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dave0164
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Post by dave0164 on Aug 25, 2012 6:55:40 GMT 9
I have a question for all the smart tech-guys out there. We are trying to lighten the overall load of the remaining airframe and were wondering if it were possible to remove the air conditioning (I asume) and filter element from the internal space behind the cockpit area? Lots of plumbing and little room. Were these things ever removed for service through the top access hatch or are they more or less permanently fixed due to the small space and inaccessability? Is there a secret/easy way to remove the stuff, or will it be relegated to the 'ole chop saw method? Any helpful hits would be appreciated.
Dave
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Post by pat perry on Aug 25, 2012 7:44:31 GMT 9
I have a question for all the smart tech-guys out there. We are trying to lighten the overall load of the remaining airframe and were wondering if it were possible to remove the air conditioning (I asume) and filter element from the internal space behind the cockpit area? Lots of plumbing and little room. Were these things ever removed for service through the top access hatch or are they more or less permanently fixed due to the small space and inaccessability? Is there a secret/easy way to remove the stuff, or will it be relegated to the 'ole chop saw method? Any helpful hits would be appreciated. Dave Dave, I worked in Environmental Systems on the six. The B model is particularly tight in the refer area due to the rear cockpit. The access is through the top refer access door on the backbone of the aircraft aft of the canopy hinge. The heat exchanger is the heaviest component at around 40-50 pounds - I believe it was stainless steel. It is in the middle of the stack of refer components. The cooling turbine is at the top and weighs about 20 pounds. Start there and remove stuff working downward toward the heat exchanger. It is very tight so plan for skinned knuckles and hundreds of bolts and nuts. Most of the air ducting is pretty light and a Sawsall would work fine on that. The moisture seperator is at the bottom of the stack and doesn't weigh very much. You will pick up some empty space after removing all that stuff and maybe 100 or so pounds of weight reduction. The good news is you won't have to put it all back in!!! We only had two B models and I always dreaded having to change a cracked heat exchanger because it took about 25 hours. Good Luck, Pat P.
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Aug 25, 2012 9:43:51 GMT 9
Environmental Systems, Pat?
When did the Phase crew, along with the Crew Chief, stop doing all the work on that beast under the top of the fuselage?
There was no easy way to do any repairs, as something had to be removed first.
You are correct, Pat, to replace the cracked heat exchanger took several shifts, usually with a multiple number of people getting their hands and heads in to the hole, one person at a time.
Like all jet fighters, the panels were small, maybe just big enough to do the job, or you had to use dynamite to get the stuff out of the hole.
Don't forget how many wrenches, screws, nuts and bolts you dropped, and had no easy way to retrieve.
Just another Six design that all the maintainers loved.
I'm sure the Tech Reps all loved it as well, as they were generally called on to tell us what the manual didn't mention.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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dave0164
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Post by dave0164 on Aug 25, 2012 11:50:37 GMT 9
Pat, thanks for the reply. I can't imagine you guys doing work in an area this small in the middle of winter at a place like minot! I am soaking my hands and knuckles as I write this. At 6'2" and 225lbs, I obviously was not meant to work in small places. Some of the equipment was removed before I got it, but there's plenty of things left. The heat exchanger is still there, and has about a million bolts securing it down. I really hate to take a sawzall to anything - I just doesn't feel right- but I may have to in order to finish this job before hell freezes over. I think I took a few pictures of the area and they are posted in the group. Anything I should be cautious about? Some of the pipes look like they might have some kind of asbestos covering. Thanks for the info.
Dave
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Aug 25, 2012 14:56:49 GMT 9
You got that right Dave. At 6 5 myself if was not fun at all. And Jim yes you're right we in phase did a lot of that. Winter... KI Sawyer... Next phase jet is already pulled in and here comes the flight chief saying he won't accept the one we just pulled ouf until we fix something. Pray its not in the refer compartment because there is no hanger space to pull it in... Ugh.
Sent from my HTC_X515E using proboards
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Post by pat perry on Aug 25, 2012 22:38:34 GMT 9
Pat, thanks for the reply. I can't imagine you guys doing work in an area this small in the middle of winter at a place like minot! I am soaking my hands and knuckles as I write this. At 6'2" and 225lbs, I obviously was not meant to work in small places. Some of the equipment was removed before I got it, but there's plenty of things left. The heat exchanger is still there, and has about a million bolts securing it down. I really hate to take a sawzall to anything - I just doesn't feel right- but I may have to in order to finish this job before hell freezes over. I think I took a few pictures of the area and they are posted in the group. Anything I should be cautious about? Some of the pipes look like they might have some kind of asbestos covering. Thanks for the info. Dave Dave, The insulation on the engine bleed air lines probably do have asbestos in them, so avoid sawing them and making dust. Find the closest marmon clamp and just disconnect them instead. If you can't get them out easily just leave them there, they aren't that heavy anyway. All the cool air lines are just aluminum. I often thought that Convair suspended the heat exchanger from the ceiling and built the rest of the aircraft around it. :rofl Pat P.
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dave0164
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Post by dave0164 on Aug 25, 2012 22:59:59 GMT 9
Thanks guys, I always figured that a true mechanic had to have hands like E.T. I'll keep you posted on the progress and follow up with pics when I can.
Dave
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Post by lindel on Aug 31, 2012 22:10:06 GMT 9
Dave, I'll be available in late October/early November if you're planning anything then.
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dave0164
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Post by dave0164 on Oct 6, 2012 14:19:01 GMT 9
Gents, sorry for the long delay with an update. Still finishing up the steel jig - far more complicated than originally thought (go figure). Been busy with little odds and ends. Here's a question for those in the know: does anyone know the size, length, and thread pitch of the 4 bolts that secure the nosecone? Ours seem to have been discarded somewhere in the desert. Lindel, I'll shoot you a note when things get close to moving. End of October/beginning of November sounds good. Thanks for all the patience. I'd crack the whip but that's hard to do when you are getting things for free and there is no charge for labor!
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Post by ma1marv on Oct 6, 2012 22:18:24 GMT 9
If I can find it - I'll let you know. I should have one in my tool box!
MArv :fire_missle_ani :patriotic-flagwaver :green-beer
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dave0164
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Post by dave0164 on Oct 7, 2012 7:24:30 GMT 9
Thanks Marv!
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Oct 7, 2012 11:08:23 GMT 9
Glad to hear from you Dave. LOL harder than expected... isn't it always the case.
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Post by LBer1568 on Oct 7, 2012 11:13:26 GMT 9
All I remember is they were hex head hardened steel about 2" long and about 3/8 inch. Hope Marv can find one. Should be easy to just look at radome and size the recepticale. You shouldn't have to worry about torque specs etc.
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Post by lugnuts55 on Nov 12, 2012 17:53:41 GMT 9
This has been a very nice weekend for me, right down to the weather being warmer than normal. Yesterday was a parade, today was a visit to the hangar and 0164. It was good to see Dave again but the really cool thing was that I got to meet Lindel and his wife today.
The three of us spent a couple hours talking about various things related to this project. The conversation was great as was the company. Dave and a friend of his have removed the trailer and built support for this interesting project. Dave has done a very good job of building up the support beams.
For me, it was very cool to meet Lindel, with whom I have spoken from time to time here in these threads. It's always nice to put a face to the name. With that in mind, I will introduce you to the three of us. Pat told me what I had to do to make a picture fit so here is a picture of Lindel, Dave, and me.
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Nov 12, 2012 19:17:03 GMT 9
This has been a very nice weekend for me, right down to the weather being warmer than normal. Yesterday was a parade, today was a visit to the hangar and 0164. It was good to see Dave again but the really cool thing was that I got to meet Lindel and his wife today. The three of us spent a couple hours talking about various things related to this project. The conversation was great as was the company. Dave and a friend of his have removed the trailer and built support for this interesting project. Dave has done a very good job of building up the support beams. For me, it was very cool to meet Lindel, with whom I have spoken from time to time here in these threads. It's always nice to put a face to the name. With that in mind, I will introduce you to the three of us. Pat told me what I had to do to make a picture fit so here is a picture of Lindel, Dave, and me. Wow Great Pic! That's great you guys got to meet and that the project is coming along :2thumbsup That's great news.
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Post by Mark O on Nov 13, 2012 2:00:30 GMT 9
Hey! That's great! Another successful mini-reuinion. It's always fun to put a face to the guys here on the forums.
As always, we appreciate the updates on the restoration as well!
:thanks
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dave0164
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Post by dave0164 on Nov 21, 2012 12:55:25 GMT 9
Gents, finally got the ole gal off the trailer. 2 guys, 8 hours, one near catastrophe, and all is well. Met with Lindel and Mike (lugnuts55) and had a great meeting. Lift is not 100% complete for we need to raise the back another 5-6" and spread out the cribbing for stability. Found that a critical piece of the nose gear is missing which won't allow us to use the gear until we find a replacement or fabricate a substitute. Lindel took some good pics of the nosegear bay and avionics bay so hopefully he'll post them for comment. I've posted some pics of the lift. Once we get her to the right height and stable, we will finish the jig and attach it to the rear so that we can access the weps bay. Work will be sporadic due to the holiday season, but we will continue to make slow progress. A happy thanksgiving to all.
Dave
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Post by bear (Deceased) on Nov 21, 2012 23:01:13 GMT 9
Bolts for radoome 3/8 X2 1/2 or 3 Fine thread 12 point head torque 235 inch lbs. Take the lines for the airspeed out that was worst part of putting the radome on, getting line up.
BEAR
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Post by Jim on Apr 10, 2016 6:41:54 GMT 9
STATUS anyone? Last posting Nov 2012!!!!!!!!!
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