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Post by Mark O on Nov 13, 2008 17:37:01 GMT 9
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Post by Jim on Nov 13, 2008 23:29:23 GMT 9
;D ;DYes Mark I remember it and the majority of the AF raised so much hell about getting rid of tradition that it was played at a few commander's calls and faded away.....Just like McPeaks ughly blue business suit you now wear should do.... AND worse yet that fairy hat from FROGLAND that was once a badge of distinction for the Rangers and the Green Berets is now worn by everyone = change for changes sake is always considered to be progress by the politically correct-(usless?)....... The Old Sarge ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Mark O on Nov 14, 2008 10:17:20 GMT 9
Change for change sake is the unofficial motto of the USAF as long as I've been in. I read an article in Air Force Magazine around the year 2000 or so by a guy who researched AF uniforms. He wrote that the since the USAF became a seperate service it has had more uniform combinations than the US Army has had in its entire existence! That was 8-years ago! We have to have added to the total since then!
I don't think people in the AF raise as much hell over stuff like that (or anything else) anymore. They are afraid to (someone's evaluation and future promotion may be at stake), or just don't care. Folks just threw a fit when General Moseley wanted to go back to a more traditional uniform. This generation is so used to the new lower standard they don't know any better. The new boss has put the new look on hold so we'll see.
Mark
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Nov 14, 2008 13:49:33 GMT 9
I certainly hope the new uniform is not just put on hold, but done away with. It reminds me of something from the 1930s. The only thing it was lacking was the full Sam Brown belt.
When I entered the Air Force some were still being issued the old green uniforms, complete with brown shoes. I was fortunate enough to get a full issue of blues and suntans. In the mid 1950s we were issued a new summer uniform. Short sleeved shirt, walking shorts and knee length hosiery. Except for the blue belt, blue necktie, blue garrison hat and black shoes, we looked like something out of the RAF in North Africa or India.
It was just another change for change sake.
Jim Scanlon in South Texas, the home of the uniform change office (Randolph).
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Post by lindel on Nov 14, 2008 15:26:22 GMT 9
I never knew the AF went through a "mail man" uniform phase! Glad that passed before I got there...
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az09
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Post by az09 on Nov 15, 2008 5:37:55 GMT 9
I came in in Nov 1965 and the shorts and knee socks were still part of the "tropical" uniform. We had a SSgt try to find the socks as they were required for wear if the shorts were worn. It was an all or none dress mode.
I just finished researching my father in laws Army days. He was an original "Merrill's Marauder", and I had to wade thru all the Army's line of tradition to find out about this jungle warfare unit. I went over to Fort Sam Houston to get most of his ribbons and decorations. I also had to find out how to assemble them and display them. I also contacted the Marauder alumni and their web site. Of the 3000 volunteers there is just a handful left. I was warmly welcomed and was invited to join them at their reunions. Just knowing a Marauder was grounds for celebrating their history. I came away from this researching being awed by the Army's traditions and reverence of those who went before them.
We in the Air Force have been cheated out of the same experience and reverence because of the " re-inventing of the wheel" exercises that our Generals put us through. I sure miss the shoulder patches that use to be part of our dress uniforms. I researched some of the units I was in and found they had a line of dedicated service. 2 went all the way back to the first flying corps in WWI.
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Post by Mark O on Nov 15, 2008 11:28:43 GMT 9
I certainly hope the new uniform is not just put on hold, but done away with. It reminds me of something from the 1930s. The only thing it was lacking was the full Sam Brown belt. Jim Scanlon in South Texas, the home of the uniform change office (Randolph). It's not as bad as those trial uniforms you might be thinking of Jim. Here's a shot of General Moseley wearing the uniform at his retirement ceremony this summer. No Sam Browne belt or funny, 1930's-collar or brown boots. Just back to what it should look like in my opinion! Looks a hell of a lot better than the uniform that Colonel next to him is wearing! www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080711-F-2270A-151.JPGMark |
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biendhoa
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Post by biendhoa on Nov 15, 2008 11:37:57 GMT 9
mark, the uniform that the general is wearing looks a lot like the dress blues we wore when I retired in 1976. Jay.  |
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Post by Jim on Nov 15, 2008 11:41:21 GMT 9
shades of IDI AMIN and his medals!!!!!!!!! That Col sure do look ridiculious :razz: :razz: :razz: :embarassed: :embarassed: The Old Sarge
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Post by Mark O on Nov 15, 2008 11:44:18 GMT 9
Whoops! See above! (Or just delete this one Pat!)
Mark
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Post by Mark O on Nov 15, 2008 11:45:23 GMT 9
mark, the uniform that the general is wearing looks a lot like the dress blues we wore when I retired in 1976. Jay. I think the only difference is the material. Looks just like the first uniform I had when I joined the Civil Air Patrol in 1979! THAT is what I want to wear!! (No kidding on the Idi Amin look Jim!!) Mark |
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Nov 15, 2008 13:48:15 GMT 9
Jim, I don't think the colonel has an Idi Amin look, although close. He really looks like the head usher at a Hollywood theater in the 1940s for a premier. Or maybe the head doorman at the St Frances Hotel in San Francisco when Gen. MacArthur stayed there in 1951 after Harry Truman fired him. At any rate, the colonel looks silly and the general looks, well, like a general.
The thing I wonder is why so many medals. Are they for anything important? Seems to-day medals are given out for not allowing your nose to run or getting to work on time twice in one week.
I see two stripers at Sea World with 6 or 7 ribbons and they have only been in a couple years. Maybe they hand them out as prizes at the Lackland rec center Bingo games.
Just an old ramp rat wondering why they need so many and how they got them.
Jim at the New Braunfels branch of the County Sligo squadron.
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Post by lindel on Nov 16, 2008 5:39:22 GMT 9
Everyone with that funky uniform is wearing medals, not ribbons. Medals have their place, but it's not on AF uniforms, looks tacky.
That looks like the same set of blues that I had when I got out in 85.
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Post by pat perry on Nov 16, 2008 7:45:47 GMT 9
I certainly hope the new uniform is not just put on hold, but done away with. It reminds me of something from the 1930s. The only thing it was lacking was the full Sam Brown belt. Jim Scanlon in South Texas, the home of the uniform change office (Randolph). It's not as bad as those trial uniforms you might be thinking of Jim. Here's a shot of General Moseley wearing the uniform at his retirement ceremony this summer. No Sam Browne belt or funny, 1930's-collar or brown boots. Just back to what it should look like in my opinion! Looks a hell of a lot better than the uniform that Colonel next to him is wearing! www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080711-F-2270A-151.JPGMark Hey Mark, Are the medals just for full dress? Do they actually wear these for everyday blues use or do they just use regular ribbons? Pat P.  |
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Post by Mark O on Nov 17, 2008 7:06:30 GMT 9
Hey Mark, Are the medals just for full dress? Do they actually wear these for everyday blues use or do they just use regular ribbons? Pat P. Oh geez! Those are special-use wear only! Those guys with the silver braid are USAF Honor Guard folks and that's why they are wearing them. I don't think anyone would want to wear those things! I would have to wear 14 myself. The other 11 I have are just ribbons thankfully but I think I have to many decorations. Most are just "I was there" decorations anyway. BTW, we have to wear all of our ribbons now with the jacket. It used to be "all, some or none" and a lot of guys I know used to just wear their individual medals only. Stuff like the commendation or achievment medals and maybe the good conduct. We can't do that any longer and on Mondays, since everyone in the USAF has to wear our blues (without the jacket), most guys just wear their wings. Of course this new, "Monday Blues" rule doesn't apply to guys in maintenance or SPs and such. Or us if we're flying. You don't see SP's at the gate wearing them since all the gate guards are contracted security guards. When the SPs are there they don't wear blues like the old days. I miss that! Mark |
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biendhoa
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Post by biendhoa on Nov 17, 2008 11:09:57 GMT 9
No rent A cop at macdill AFB . When you go thru the main gate ,you have to go around a traffic circle,zig zag around several concrete posts then stop and show your ID. After you get on base about a hundred yards down the road is a bunker with a 50 cal aimed at you.If you get past all that there is a humvee under a carport with some sort of heavy calibre weapon on it.If anyone tried to crash the gate their ass would be grass and the SP`S would the lawn mower.
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Post by Mark O on Nov 18, 2008 9:40:38 GMT 9
We can't do that any longer and on Mondays, since everyone in the USAF has to wear our blues (without the jacket), most guys just wear their wings. Of course this new, "Monday Blues" rule doesn't apply to guys in maintenance or SPs and such. Mark Speaking of the "Monday Blues", or "Blues Monday" - whatever - I finally had to wear them today. I missed the beginning when I was deployed and got out of it last week but got stuck with it today. I realized I hadn't wore my blues since I graduated from Basic Flight Engineer school in February 2007 and hadn't undated my ribbons since then either! (Whoops!) Oh well, I updated them but only have a 24-ribbon holder. I actually need a 25 so I left off the USAF Good Conduct Medal since I haven't actually got it yet. I meant to call today about it but it can wait. Besides, with my jump wings and aircrew wings I am out of room on my shirt!! I do like wearing them though because 12 of them are ones I got in the US Army and I like getting the looks and questions! Here's what I have now...  Mark Edit: I almost forgot. I actually was awarded another ribbon when I was in the TN ANG. I got the Tennessee Service Ribbon but I'm not allowed to wear it since I'm on active duty and it's a state guard ribbon! I guess that makes 26! |
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Post by Jim on Nov 18, 2008 11:47:25 GMT 9
what do the Lady Bugs represent on the center ribbon top row?  The Old Sarge |
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Post by Mark O on Nov 18, 2008 13:39:51 GMT 9
what do the Lady Bugs represent on the center ribbon top row? The Old Sarge Those are Oak Leaf Clusters (OLC). One bronze OLC equals an additional award of the same medal/ribbon/award. Most of the time! The "knots" on the red-white-striped ribbon (Army Good Conduct Medal) are similair but are an exception to the OLC rule. For the top center ribbon (Army Commendation Medal) it means I have 5 of those. The ribbon equals one, plus 4 OLCs total up to 5. The three knots only mean I have three Good Conduct Medals. Another example is the top left blue-and-yellow ribbon which is the Air Medal. I have two of those. The stars represent campaigns and the numerals represent multiple tours or schools. Interestingly, in the US Army they use numerals on the Air Medal but in the USAF we use OLCs. The gold border on the top two ribbons mean they are Army unit awards. The bottom one with the gold border is the USAF Expeditionary Service Ribbon. I have 7 of those so you see one silver OLC (5 awards) and one bronze OLC (one award) plus the ribbon for a total of 7. The gold border means I got at least one of them during a combat tour. The swords-and-palm tree device on the bottom, center is just part of the decoration and doesn't really mean anything. That's the Liberation of Kuwait Medal from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia I got during Desert Storm. That tan-and-blue ribbon with the "M" is the Armed Forces Reserve Medal. Normally that is given for longevity in the Guard or Reserve. The "M" means I got it when the unit I was in was Mobilized by the President for a national emergency. (9-11) I know, it gets confusing! I do hope that helps though! Mark |
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Post by Jeff Shannon on Nov 19, 2008 1:14:46 GMT 9
We can't do that any longer and on Mondays, since everyone in the USAF has to wear our blues (without the jacket), most guys just wear their wings. Of course this new, "Monday Blues" rule doesn't apply to guys in maintenance or SPs and such. Mark Speaking of the "Monday Blues", or "Blues Monday" - whatever - I finally had to wear them today. I missed the beginning when I was deployed and got out of it last week but got stuck with it today. I realized I hadn't wore my blues since I graduated from Basic Flight Engineer school in February 2007 and hadn't undated my ribbons since then either! (Whoops!) Oh well, I updated them but only have a 24-ribbon holder. I actually need a 25 so I left off the USAF Good Conduct Medal since I haven't actually got it yet. I meant to call today about it but it can wait. Besides, with my jump wings and aircrew wings I am out of room on my shirt!! I do like wearing them though because 12 of them are ones I got in the US Army and I like getting the looks and questions! Here's what I have now... Mark Edit: I almost forgot. I actually was awarded another ribbon when I was in the TN ANG. I got the Tennessee Service Ribbon but I'm not allowed to wear it since I'm on active duty and it's a state guard ribbon! I guess that makes 26!Wow Mark very impressive. When I was in recruiting we had to wear our ribbons everyday. it go so expensive trying to replace the ribbons when they looked worn out so to speak. A bunch of us ordered our ribbons from a company which did all the work for us and they where magnetized so we didn't have a bunch of holes in our uniform shirts. they were also thin and light. Do you have to wear a counter weight on the other side to keep from tipping over? HEHE. That's why the General was walking on the right side of the Col .....just in case he was about to fall over  Outstanding Mark Outstanding. you know the civilian community just doesn't understand the sacrifice it takes to EARN one of those ribbons and medals. they have no concept of the hours, days, months, and even years spent away form family and loved ones, and we didn't do it for a ribbon or medal! we did what we had to do. We may not have liked it at the time we just did it. Thanks Mark for all you do!!  |
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