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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 22, 2012 0:26:03 GMT 9
Back in April 1984 I was at WPAFB in Systems Command. We got word that Lt. Gen. Robert M Bond, vice commander of the Air Force Systems Command, died in a crash of the then secret F-117A at the Tonopah Test Range in Nevada in the mid-1980s.
We found out later that he was killed when the MIG 23 he was flying out of Groom crashed into Little Skull Mountain on the Nevada Test Site.
I never figured out why it was better to announce that he died in then secret F-117 instead of secret MIG AF we flew at Nellis/Groom.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 0:30:33 GMT 9
Not that it mattered to the General, but maybe the bad guys didnt know we HAD a MIG AF? They couldnt see a 117, and there werent any pictures, I guess. So why not just admit to a plane that DIDNT exist, rather than tip our hand with the MIG?
Hey, we all know how the chowder heads on the east coast operate, especially near the Chesapeake,
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Post by lindel on Mar 22, 2012 7:18:23 GMT 9
The extra wall does something to their heads...
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 22, 2012 10:21:10 GMT 9
I lived in Southern Nevada from 1984 - 1994, about 65 miles NE of Vegas.
For us to get to Reno, Portland or other places up that way, we took U.S. 95, but we took state highways to get to 95.
On the drive, we went through Rachael, on the edge of the Test Area, Groom Lake, Area 51 and other places you need special clearance to get to.
We had a young SSgt and his family in our congregation, he drove to Nellis on his duty reporting day, and flew in a 737 to Groom Lake for his duty days.
He was a crew chief on the 117, which he said the Air Force would know acknowledge, but was in the local papers and on TV news.
If you went to Rachael and took dirt roads to the mountains behind the Groom Lake/Area 51 sites, you could Jeep almost to the tops of the mountains and take movies and still pictures to your hearts content.
Eventually the Air Force managed to get BLM to transfer all of those mountains to DOD, then they put up lots of fences, instituted security patrols, on foot, vehicle, Four-Wheelers, helicopter and horseback.
When Gen.Bonds was killed, I suspect saying he was in a 117 was a way to make official what was already well-known.
As to keeping the Soviets from knowing about our MiG Fleet?
They already knew. After all, they sold the planes to other nations, who in turn, sold them to us.
How else would we get current model Soviet planes?
I suspect some of our "allies" did the same with some of our birds, only selling them to the Soviets.
Lots of "secrets" are only secret to our country, not others, especially the Soviets.
In front of the Red Flag area on the Nellis Main Base, are some MiGs and other Soviet military hardware, sitting on display for all to see.
Secret?
I think not.
Jim Too
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Post by Mark O on Mar 22, 2012 11:24:19 GMT 9
On display at Nellis - at least it was when I took this photo in either 2004, or 2005. Somewhere I have a pic I took a couple years ago of the MiG on display at Goodfellow AFB as well. Yea, we've had MiGs for years. The first MiG-15 we got was courtesy of a North Korean defector. Chuck Yeager even tested it. It's on display today at the National Museum of the USAF at Wright-Patt. The first MiG-25 we got was courtesy of a Soviet pilot (Viktor Belenko) who flew his to Japan. We sent it back to the Soviets in a box!  |
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Post by steve201 (deceased) on Mar 22, 2012 12:05:49 GMT 9
I didn't think they even let it known that there were F117's anyplace.....heck they were still talking about "have blue" back then....then around 1990 they let them out so they could play in the iraqi sand box.....
Steve
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 22, 2012 12:18:00 GMT 9
When the 117s began to move to Holloman in 1991, the cat was out of the bag, big time.
My friend got out at the end of his second enlistment, as he refused to move to Holloman, and because he was trained on the 117, he was unable to transfer to anything else.
So, the AF lost a good mechanic, and Nevada Power gained a good mechanic at their jet engine powered power plant.
Seeing the Ruskies already knew everything they wanted to know about the Nighthawk, and we knew they knew, seemed rather silly to me to continue the "secrecy" games.
But, bureaucrats, in and out of the military, do all they can to keep their jobs, even telling secrets to be able to keep the secrets.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 22, 2012 23:58:56 GMT 9
We got the majority of our "MIG AF" following the last Israel versus the rest of Arabian people war. Israel crossed the Suiz Canel and captured all the Egyptian acquired Soviet arms near the border which included SAMs, tanks, and yes Aircraft. Much of that came to WPAFB and the Foreign Technology Division for tear down and analysis. Thats when we started using MIG AF to train our pilots in Air to Air. They also flew them to determine strengths and weaknesses. The big surprise was the lack of advanced Avionics. The strength was their flying ability and overall strength in structure. A plus and minus was the powerplant. It made tons of power, but was short lived between major teardowns.
I understand that we provided a Squadron of F-15 and F-16 as payment for the Soviet equipment.
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Post by Bullhunter on Mar 23, 2012 0:55:31 GMT 9
You should read LT. Viktor Belenko's book titled MIG PILOT. Photo at USAF National Museum. Attachments:
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Post by pat perry on Mar 23, 2012 5:38:07 GMT 9
I didn't think they even let it known that there were F117's anyplace.....heck they were still talking about "have blue" back then....then around 1990 they let them out so they could play in the iraqi sand box..... Steve Anyone know why they arrived at "have blue" as a project code name? Or is it an acronym of some sort? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Have_BlueThere was also another project called "Tacit blue" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Tacit_BluePat P. |
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Post by Mark O on Mar 23, 2012 6:55:32 GMT 9
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Post by steve201 (deceased) on Mar 23, 2012 7:21:28 GMT 9
You should read LT. Viktor Belenko's book titled MIG PILOT. Photo at USAF National Museum. I've read the book...awesome book...every american should read it.....gives a personal impression of life behind the iron curtain... Steve |
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Post by pat perry on Mar 23, 2012 8:11:04 GMT 9
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Post by Mark O on Mar 23, 2012 8:26:18 GMT 9
Yea, "Harvey Blue" just wouldn't "sing"! Remember "Provo's Privy" from the movie "The Green Berets" staring John Wayne? It sings!  |
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 23, 2012 10:19:41 GMT 9
I wonder who "owns" the Have... Project codes now. back in 1992 AF Systems Command and Air Force Logistics Commands merged into USAF Materials Command Based here at Wright-Patt AFB,
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Post by Cougar on Apr 11, 2012 6:23:37 GMT 9
Anyone know why they arrived at "have blue" as a project code name? Or is it an acronym of some sort? Have Blue: what do you have when you have an empty radar scope. The F-117, devoid of curved surfaces and using composite materials, was built in such a manner so as not to return a signal back to the receiver but instead to deflect it away from the receiver. No signal return, Have Blue Sky. |
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Post by steve201 (deceased) on Apr 11, 2012 6:34:37 GMT 9
have blue was just a code name that is randomely picked up on a list of codes...you can google code names and it will bring up a mess of them...
have blue just happened to be the f117 program....
Steve
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Post by Cougar on Apr 11, 2012 11:47:14 GMT 9
I guess seeing as how it’s just a randomly picked code name out of a list of codes I’ll just take credit for randomly picking a possible reason for calling it Have Blue.
5-2, I’m in the Blue.
:green-beer :drunk :green-beer
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Post by pat perry on Apr 11, 2012 12:23:05 GMT 9
I read long ago that the code letters were given to operations, projects, weapons systems, etc by random pick and the unit doing the work could make a name out of them. Usually the names picked leaned toward the focus of the project or the desired outcome. Sometimes totally irrelevant names were selected that hand nothing to do with the project to keep a lid on secrecy.
IE: DS for Desert Storm, Desert Shield
So HB could have been the random pick and Have Blue fit like a glove for the F-117 stealth program or project.
That's my story and I'm stick'in to it.
:rofl
Pat P.
PS Welcome back Cougar
:drunk
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Post by pat perry on May 13, 2012 10:06:18 GMT 9
I didn't think they even let it known that there were F117's anyplace.....heck they were still talking about "have blue" back then....then around 1990 they let them out so they could play in the iraqi sand box..... Steve Found it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_NighthawkExcerpt: The project began in 1975 with a model called the "Hopeless Diamond" (a wordplay on the Hope Diamond because of its appearance). The following year, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency issued Lockheed Skunk Works a contract to build and test two Stealth Strike Fighters, under the code name "Have Blue".The Hope Diamond is the largest blue diamond ever found. Pretty clever, huh? Pat P. :  |
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