delta2477a
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 101
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Joined: August 2005
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Post by delta2477a on Aug 14, 2005 10:42:40 GMT 9
Since the F-16 took over some interceptor roles in the late '70's...
Was the F-16 faster, or about the same, or slower?
-Delta2477A
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Post by Cougar on Aug 14, 2005 11:34:28 GMT 9
The F-16A was designed as a lightweight air-to-air day fighter, and was not considered interceptor capable until after late 1981. In terms of straight line speed; the 6 would be 237 miles farther down the coast line at the end of an hour. In terms of cornering the Viper is capable of exerting 9 big ones; loading that would probably result in some structural damage to the Dart.
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Post by Jim on Aug 14, 2005 15:18:27 GMT 9
THANKS DELTA FOR ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, PLEASE DON'T LET THE WELL RUN DRY AND BART- THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWERS AND THE RESULTIN FURTHERIN O ME EDIFICATION....MY SHORT 4 YRS ON THE SIX (59-63) APPARENTLY WAS BEFORE IT GOT EXCITING, HOWEVER I WOULDN'T SWAP THOSE 4 YRS FOR ALL THE OTHER YEARS ON OTHER A/C.....BTB (NOT-BRING THE BOTTLE), WHENINHELL YOU GOING TO GET RID OF THAT GUEST MONIKER? :-*A TIP O ME FINE FATIQUE CAP- NOT BDU HAT..The Old Sarge
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Post by Cougar on Aug 14, 2005 20:16:16 GMT 9
( AND BART- THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWERS AND THE RESULTIN FURTHERIN O ME EDIFICATION....) What is this EDIFICATION furtherin stuff? I thought uplifting enlightenment only came in green bottles. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Jim on Aug 14, 2005 23:39:39 GMT 9
( AND BART- THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWERS AND THE RESULTIN FURTHERIN O ME EDIFICATION....) What is this EDIFICATION furtherin stuff? I thought uplifting enlightenment only came in green bottles. ;D ;D ;D IT DO, BUT YE GOT TO BE SMART ENOUGH TO BE A OPENIN THE BOTTLE
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 15, 2005 5:09:53 GMT 9
Thanks guys. Delta, remember that 9 Gs contineuous was on the F-16C no the F-16A which was 7 Gs.
Contineuous 9 Gs is rough on the human body, even with a G suit and the recliner seat of the F-16. It's much better to grunt and snap. But then you would do anything to get someone off your tail or break a missles lockon.
I wish Lt Col Shulmister would jump in here, with his tale of coming over the top pulling maybe 12 Gs in the Six, going through "Grey Out" and hoping that he is behind his adversary when his vision returns.
The "Grey Out" is with all A/C. Sometimes you don't wake up.
I can just imagine the Col's attacker thinking "Holy S__T!".
Yes the Six had to be inspected after a 7 G stunt. The F-16C and F-18 didn't need inspection till they bustd 9. Jack :-)
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Post by Cougar on Aug 15, 2005 11:50:08 GMT 9
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LtCol M Ross Shulmister
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Post by LtCol M Ross Shulmister on Aug 15, 2005 16:43:03 GMT 9
Sorry guys, but the "G" story has gotten some embellishment in the retelling.
I had a G-suit on, during air-to-air combat training, and the G-meter max-needle read 8.3 when I shut down. It wasn't so much that I was hoping I was behind my IP when I came out of the grayout, than I was hoping he was no longer behind me (he wasn't). We ended up looking for each other, so the uncoordinated flight maneuvers followed by a max G turn into him accomplished the goal.
As I recall, when the meter hit 8 G's, inspection was required. The design limit was 12 G's, meaning the manufacturer didn't guarantee that parts wouldn't start falling off above that limit, and there could be structural damage above 8 G's.
Pulling G's alone does not avoid a missile. You also have to maneuver in such a way that the missile overcompensates for your maneuvering, and either tries to fly outside its flight envelope (i.e., stalls), or breaks lock (can no longer see you). Or better yet, both.
As for pitting unlike airplanes against each other, one has to apply the advantages of his own aircraft. The advantage of the F-105 was that it accelerated in a downward direction much better than any other object known to man. Probably still would. And it was designed to withstand dynamic air pressure at sea level well in excess of 700 knots (I forgot the number), and I don't think any modern aircraft have that design capability.
The six was a heavyweight compared to the F-16 and more modern fighters. It couldn't compete in the vertical, so its combat tactics leaned toward the horizontal and diagonal planes. I recall some stories about when the 27th competed at Tyndall against F-104's, and lost. The rules favored the F-104. It was a political plum to be selected to compete, and the old farts didn't have the imagination to not play by the rules. In combat, there are no rules. It was amusing to listen to them bitch about the rules, and how they got "shot down."
As a heavyweight, the six didn't have a huge endurance at supersonic speeds, but at subsonic speeds it could fly well over 3 hours (I had a 3:35 flight, plus 5 minutes for taxiing, and landed with minimum fuel in each tank). I don't know if an F-16 can do that, meaning that if you can run your opponent out of fuel, he either has to sacrifice the plane, or try to run away when his fuel gets low.
Even with a disadvantage in aircraft performance, a superior pilot is likely to have the ability to outmaneuver a better airplane with a less capable pilot. And all pilots make mistakes - even Baron von Richthofen got shot down.
LtCol M. Ross Shulmister
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Post by Jim on Aug 16, 2005 10:24:08 GMT 9
Sorry guys, but the "G" story has gotten some embellishment in the retelling. . Even with a disadvantage in aircraft performance, a superior pilot is likely to have the ability to outmaneuver a better airplane with a less capable pilot. And all pilots make mistakes - even Baron von Richthofen got shot down. LtCol M. Ross Shulmister AIN'T IT GOOD TO HEAR FROM THE COL AGAIN??????????????? :( Confirms my comments about the P-51/F86 and F-86/F100 and superior pilot......It is not the quality of the tool, but the quality of the tool user.....The Old Sarge
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 16, 2005 22:29:29 GMT 9
Hearing from the Col is always interesting. I think we need a new thread titled "Boy that made me change my shorts, WON'T do that again!". Jack
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Post by Cougar on Aug 17, 2005 0:16:57 GMT 9
......It is not the quality of the tool, but the quality of the tool user.....The Old Sarge Well, I'll be dipped; I always thought it had something to do with the angle of attack, and the heat of the......
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Post by Jim on Aug 17, 2005 8:45:58 GMT 9
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 18, 2005 0:19:36 GMT 9
Cougar, I am a long standing member, However Logon and Password were lost, when Pat's World was redesigned. Would re-register if I could get an Invitation Code! Till then this Sixer is a Guest. Jack
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Post by Cougar on Aug 18, 2005 11:15:18 GMT 9
Cougar, I am a long standing member, However Logon and Password were lost, when Pat's World was redesigned. Would re-register if I could get an Invitation Code! Till then this Sixer is a Guest. Jack Patrick, there must be some TSO out there thet will help this fellow 6er unlock the mystery of signing up again after the changeover.
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