delta2477a
F-106 Skilled
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Post by delta2477a on Aug 4, 2005 10:34:40 GMT 9
Why were all the intercept attacks flown using the fire control computer, and not just done by hand?
-Delta
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 5, 2005 0:24:06 GMT 9
delta2477a, you must know nothing about fighters. Even in a voice controled setup, you still need the computer to line you up for the kill, prepare and time the weapons and fire them. Heck even in a true pursuit with the gun, you still need a IR/Radar lock to get valid range to the computer so the proper geometry consisting of range, bearing, angle of attack, side slip, speed and probably a few more to most effectivly use those few rounds that you have.
This applies to all fighters.
The only weapon that you can actually "eyeball" is a AIM-9 Sidewinder.
Now in reality, this would have been a easy mod on the Six. The drop tank would have to hang lower and outside of each pylon you hang a Sidewinder, like the F-16 that carries 1 on each side above the drop tank.
Most of the wiring was already there at the right pylon for the ACMI pod that was an AIM-9 casing.
Just select the AIM-9, manuver for tone and fire.
Another good mod would have been the AIM-26 replacing the AIM-4s. This was done on some F-102's. They probably would have fit right on the rails and only needed a program update. The big thing here was response time, manuverability and proximity fusing. The AIM-26 would have been as good or better then a "Slammer".
Oh to dream. Too few airframes and low budgets. Jack MA-1, Retired
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delta2477a
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 101
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Joined: August 2005
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Post by delta2477a on Aug 5, 2005 1:41:41 GMT 9
delta2477a, you must know nothing about fighters. Even in a voice controled setup, you still need the computer to line you up for the kill, prepare and time the weapons and fire them. Heck even in a true pursuit with the gun, you still need a IR/Radar lock to get valid range to the computer so the proper geometry consisting of range, bearing, angle of attack, side slip, speed and probably a few more to most effectivly use those few rounds that you have. The computer flies the plane to the target in a gun engagement? I thought it just gave the pilot data so he could more accurately aim. I'm not talking about the computer assisting the pilot... I've heard about cases with the F-106's fire control computer flying the plane all the way to the target, automatically releasing the missiles, and flying away... I think it was called SAGE or something
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 5, 2005 6:51:20 GMT 9
Delta, I was just trying to simplify it for you.
Yes in the begining, we used the SAGE system in two different modes to take us out to an offset point, where target aquisition was possible. This was technicly navigation to target. After target lockon, it was all on the MA-1 computer to put you in a lead collision track. Today for some reason the F-15 boys call the same attack profile a lead pursuit. Maybe it's PC, but we were designed to go after bombers and pay any price to stop them.
When the bomber threat didn't materialize, the SAGE system died and voice control took over. But by now the computer was navigating and flying the Six. It was the AFCS (Automatic Flight Control System). It seems like everything ran through the computer someway or other.
While a lot of practice was done with the MSR to launch the AIR-2A, a live one was never flown on the Six to my knowledge. Some may have been ferried, in a no launch condition.
The AIM-26 carried a convetional warhead. It could carry a small nuke but did not. It was a direct replacemet for the AIMs that the Deuce carried. All they had to do was remove the 24 Mighty Mouse rockets and hollow out the doors a little. On the Six there should have been plenty of clearence.
So the dream Dogfighter would be; Sixshooter 4- AIM-26 internal 2- AIM-9 Sidewinders carried external, 1 right and 1 left.
As I said before, it was all in the number of airframes and the budget. The F-15 didn't help either.
Also remember that the Six played a big part in the development of the AIM-120 AMRAAM, carried on that right pylon and if someone tells you they saw a Six with a Slammer (AIM-7) or Sidewinder (AIM-9) on that right pylon, please don't call him a liar. Peace :-) Jack
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Post by Jim on Aug 5, 2005 11:08:53 GMT 9
While a lot of practice was done with the MSR to launch the AIR-2A, a live one was never flown on the Six to my knowledge. Some may have been ferried, in a no launch condition. Peace :-) Jack I too don't know if there were flights with the GENIE, BUT, as a load team chief at Loring, not all my loads were done with the weapon that had the blue midsection. By the way Pima Air Museum has one of the inert training weapon---With the 87th FIS emblem on it....The Old Sarge
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 6, 2005 0:26:52 GMT 9
Hey Sarge, As a C man augmantee, I never loaded a Blue Dot. All training loads were totally white, full 2 man concept in effect. Did plenty of switching, launch five's, drop AIR-2a's from fifteens, move them to five, load two fresh A/C on F/L with missles, drag to alert barn and upload AIR-2a.
The good thing was 2 days off for 24 hours alert duty.
On one ORI mass load, while torquing the breech plate, the torque wrench slipped and scrached the weapon. Since it was all white the load chief did what he had to do, call a Broken Arrow. Heck we were going to have to explaine the scratch sooner or later. Well to everyones suprise, the ORI team never called a Broken Arrow.
On debriefing, we found out that we demonstrated that we knew how to handle one and the wrench slip happens. G-day :-) Jack
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delta2477a
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 101
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Joined: August 2005
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Post by delta2477a on Aug 6, 2005 5:28:51 GMT 9
Voice control? What, you just told it "break left" "go right" "pull up"?
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 6, 2005 7:39:23 GMT 9
Delta, You are trying me! Delta 21, Heading 290, Mach .9, Angles 30 "Roger" Delta 21, traffic left, continue 290 "Roger" Delta 21, traffic right, continue 290 "Roger" Delta 21, Heading 310, Target 35 miles, Angles 38, Bearing 51, ID "Roger going supersonic"
Get the idea Delta? Jack
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Post by Jim on Aug 6, 2005 11:44:19 GMT 9
Hey Sarge, As a C man augmantee, I never loaded a Blue Dot. All training loads were totally white, full 2 man concept in effect. The good thing was 2 days off for 24 hours alert duty. Broken Arrow. On debriefing, we found out that we demonstrated that we knew how to handle one and the wrench slip happens. G-day :-) Jack when I started loading , I believe it was lead, #2,#3,#4....I remember my first jpb was to open the coffins and put the Falcons on the cradles----2 weeks later I was being taught to be a load team chief and found out that I was the only APG to be so.......A so called BROKEN ARROW didn't get me off.........Glad you speak goiod IRISH me lad......Take it easy on DELTA---- he has brought some life back in here from me green bottle....the Old Sarge
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Post by Cougar on Aug 8, 2005 17:06:32 GMT 9
While a lot of practice was done with the MSR to launch the AIR-2A, a live one was never flown on the Six to my knowledge. Some may have been ferried, in a no launch condition. Jack, if memory serves me correctly I'm thinking that while I was with the 456th we ferried some AIRs from Castle AFB to Fresno, CA after Det. 1 was brought on line. An emergency was declared, the active went sterile, and fire trucks and APs were all over the place. Cougar
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Post by John Bartoszewicz on Aug 8, 2005 22:16:13 GMT 9
Yes, and during the Cuban mess Selfridge Birds also ferried the big guy to Patrick AFB. Jack :-)
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