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eLORAN
Nov 4, 2014 15:11:31 GMT 9
Post by Mark O on Nov 4, 2014 15:11:31 GMT 9
Anyone remember the LORAN system? When I was a kid I first learned about it as there was a LORAN-C station not terribly far from where I grew up. I was friends with a guy who's dad was an active duty Coast Guardsman that worked there. He took our Boy Scout troop on a tour of the station once, in fact. www.loran-history.info/George/george.htmAnyway, the LORAN-C system was shut down in 2010. GPS took over. But what if something happens to the GPS system? Hmm...? The British decided it would be a good idea to bring an advanced LORAN system called "eLORAN" back. www.techienews.co.uk/9719822/world-war-ii-tech-eloran-deployed-gps-backup-uk/There are folks in the USA that are trying to convince us to do the same. www.insidegnss.com/node/3853Kind of a long read, but very interesting. |
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff 
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Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Nov 4, 2014 23:40:27 GMT 9
Loran as a backup certainly makes sense.
What happens if a GPS satellite is knocked out by an EMP, or on purpose by an enemy?
Sometimes the old systems are not so bad an idea, and should be kept around.
I think the military and others who use GPS and other info from satellites have become too dependent on them.
I wonder if airlines would be able to fly without the satellite systems they depend on, or ships be able to navigate using a sextant and a chronograph?
I'm all in favour of technology, but not if it sacrifices the use of Brain Power.
Seems that ships and planes managed to go to a lot of places before GPS was ever thought of.
Jim Too
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Post by LBer1568 on Nov 4, 2014 23:50:03 GMT 9
When I was stationed at Spangdahlem AB Germany we had F-4 Aircraft. We had all kinds of F-4's. We had F-4 C Wild Weasels, F-4D, F-4D with Loran, F-4E and F-4G Wild Weasels. While they were all F-4 Aircraft they were greatly difference in looks and capabilities. They F-4D Loran were our Primary Nuke Birds since they had advanced Navigation capabilities. Weasels were SAM Killers and the F-4E Aircraft worked with Weasels. The Weasels would ID the SAM sites and pass Coordinates (Lat/Long) to F-4E which would launch Sam killer missiles to double capabilities to suppress the SAMs. Our primary mission was to open corridors so the F-111 aircraft from England could pass through outer barrier of Soviet Union country. They had borders protected by massive SAM and Radar sites. Usually less than 10 miles wide. Once through boundary the Nuke F-111 birds were pretty clean until close to Airfields which were also protected by SAMS. The F-111E from Upper Heyford were used as Tactical weapons to destroy Runways to deter Normal Base Ops for Soviets. The F-111F from Lakenheath were more Strategic to destroy major Industry as well as some selective Airfields, train stations etc. The LORAN was a great Nav system for its day. It didn't require the constant Radar updates our F-111E Aircraft needed for its Nav Systems. I have read a lot about vulnerabilities of GPS. But more enemies will have to develop better satellite killers to destroy the GPS Satellites. There are more GPS sats each year so the task gets harder. |
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eLORAN
Nov 5, 2014 0:38:22 GMT 9
Post by Jim on Nov 5, 2014 0:38:22 GMT 9
Loran as a backup certainly makes sense.
What happens if a GPS satellite is knocked out by an EMP, or on purpose by an enemy?
Sometimes the old systems are not so bad an idea, and should be kept around.
I think the military and others who use GPS and other info from satellites have become too dependent on them.
I wonder if airlines would be able to fly without the satellite systems they depend on, or ships be able to navigate using a sextant and a chronograph?
I'm all in favour of technology, but not if it sacrifices the use of Brain Power.
Seems that ships and planes managed to go to a lot of places before GPS was ever thought of.
Jim Too
Running out of instructors knowledgeable in the use the old magnetic compass (aka) "stand-by Compass" and the somewhat newer radio compass, and most new pilots couldn't recognize location codes used anyways..... Sandy and I eat breakfast at our airport restaurant every Sat AM. Vast majority of the pilots carry an Ipad or tablet looking device. It is their navigation kit. Some made by Garmin. Even tells you which way to turn after airborne (right, left. etc, not north, south etc. Keeps you out of restricted airspace, prevents you from using airport with radio systems (your certification category, etc) and reminds you that you are limited to 50 miles from home base...... Loran-C Since Fiscal Year 2000, Congressional appropriations for the LORAN (LOng RAnge Navigation) System have exceeded $120 million. Congress has designated that these monies be administered by the Federal Aviation Administration and used for system modernization and research. Toward that end, the bulk of the funding has been turned over to the U.S. Coast Guard, the system operator, for improvements in transmitters, timing and frequency equipment, and upgraded system control. The remaining money has been applied to research in the areas of non-precision approach for landing of aircraft, and harbor approach and harbor entrance for maritime shipping. In addition, since the release of a report on the vulnerability of the Global Positioning System (GPS) on September 10, 2001 authored by the DoTVolpeTransportationSystemsCenter, LORAN has been in contention for use as a backup navigation and timing system for GPS. The figure below shows primary (solid line) and fringe (dashed line) coverage of the continental United States and Canada. In addition, LORAN chains are operational in Korea, Japan, Western Europe, Saudi Arabia, and Russia (a system called Chayka). www.ohio.edu/avionics/research/nav/loran/ |
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eLORAN
Nov 5, 2014 15:20:27 GMT 9
Post by Mark O on Nov 5, 2014 15:20:27 GMT 9
Igloo White - interesting use of LORAN in Vietnam. There is a pic of an F-4D with the LORAN antenna in this link. thefutureofthings.com/3902-igloo-white-the-automated-battlefield/(I have a scale model of an F-4D -- like all of my models, waiting to be built! -- and it includes a LORAN antenna. Most likely I will eventually build it as an ADC Phantom, probably with 171st FIS markings.) Another pic of the LORAN antenna on the F-4D which I have always heard referred to as the "towel rack." Does that sound familiar?  |
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