Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff 
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Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,075 
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Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF
NBA: Spurs
NFL: Niners
MLB: Giants
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Aug 2, 2014 0:13:39 GMT 9
This wa on the AFA Daily:
Major Changes Coming in Enlisted Promotion System
The Air Force announced July 31 major changes in the Enlisted Evaluation and Weighted Airman Promotion systems, which are intended to make job performance the driving factor for promotion. The changes will be implemented incrementally beginning in August and continue through early 2016. Additional information will be released prior to each of the changes, and the program will be re-evaluated at the end of each increment. "We want to make sure performance is the most important thing in every aspect of an airman's career, so the evaluation process is going to measure performance and the promotion system is going to emphasize performance," said Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James. The Weighted Airman Promotion System will use the latest three Enlisted Performance Reports, instead of five, while the value of time-in-grade and time-in-service points will be reduced and ultimately eliminated. The EPR forms and the process for completing them also will be changed, working from the foundation of the Airman Comprehensive Assessment introduced in July. "The purpose of the enlisted evaluation system is to accurately document duty performance so we can have honest performance-based discussions with our airmen," said Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh.
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I agree with job performance being the main criteria for promotion, however, the article doesn't give all the changes coming, except that TIG and TiS will eventually be eliminated.
I don't know how that will work.
Will we have some Chiefs running around with less than 10 years service?
Will it be used for an "elmination system"?
Too many unanswered questions.
Jim Too
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Post by Jim on Aug 2, 2014 2:27:27 GMT 9
Well, Jim Too, you and I are probably the only ones who post regularly here who were around when Airmen promotions were done at Sqdn, Group and Wing levels.... Up to A/1C met a squadron board and SSgt through MSgt met all 3 boards because the higher the rank the fewer slots.... And of course there were those that always shouted "Brown noser" when they didn't get promoted. Most of the time, it didn't make much difference whether you were the best or not, if you got promoted ahead of some one with more TIG, you were a "brown noser"........ You found out who were your friends come promotion time......... Then sometime in '57, they decided to enlarge the one page, single sided Airman's Proficiency Report with social questions, attitude questions worthy of a "shrink" evaluation..... and it went from being just your bosses evaluation ( flight chief, dock chief etc) to now including the line chief and the maintenance officer's endorsements..... Top 3 (TSgt, MSgt and SMSgt) would get sqdn CO and Air Division CO endorsements. 2 additional endorsements by people who, in most cases, never knew you, let alone having even met you. These were what people with actual selection authority based a major part of their guidance on...... For several years, this worked reasonably well....... Then when the system seemed to act like it had become compromised and grossly bloated APRs started showing up, endorsing officials were WARNED that they had better be willing to swear upon a BIBLE, (when it was legal to have one in your desk) that a 9 or 10 was a true evaluation. Most would not endorse one that was mostly 8s, for fear of retaliation.......ON THEIR APR!!!!!!!!!!!! To combat this bullshit, I would take my BEST, (even those that I would have loved giving them a punch in the mouth, or at least a swift kick in the ass!!!) and every 90 to 100 days I would give them a new reporting official, or put them in a true supervisory position and then I would be their RO..... By the same token, if I had a POS that I couldn't drum out of the service, he would also get several different ROs, and eventually he would disappear......... And I made sure that some of them got their duty time adjusted to where they could further their education and get additional points.. Now, to be honest with you, I personally hated this reward, because within one wing I was in, the "titless waf and Real WAFs" points total out weighed the points the people with the 42XXX and 43XXX received, by 5 to 1...... Why- because a/c maint. people rarely worked 8-5 and 5 days a week.... I have digressed, The justification given in Jim Too's report is probably word for word from what was said in 1957....... Now, eliminating TIG and TIS points will shaft those AFSCs that become the victim of promotion freezes. ( I was in one for 5 years -1957-1962 when ADC froze promotion to TSgt for the 43171C field, while other fields got unlimited promotions with minimum TIG, and in some cases at Loring, TIG waived..... When they thawed, I was 1 of 4 to get promoted to TSgt in all of EADAF- Loring, Dow, New Brunswick AFS, Otis, Griffiss and McGuire) Eliminating these 2 steps of points will ham string those in crowded career fields, BUT, when it comes to reducing manpower, guess what gets looked at first? Yep, Gee he has quite a bit of TIG, and TIS!!!!!!!! If he/she was any good, don't you think that he would have been promoted a lot sooner?  ?? Put him/her on the "To Go List"....... I am surprised that this didn't come out shortly after the circus took over the Dept. of the Air Force...... Maybe reduce the value for TIG and TIS, but then get rid of the bullshit "feel good" ribbons and medals points for any medals other than AF Commendation Medal and with V, Joint Services Commendation Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Air Medal, Purple Heart, Bronze Star and V, Airman's Medal, DFC, ? Legion of Merit- any enlisted ever get this one?, Silver Star, maybe the Distinguished Service Medal, Air Force Cross and the Medal of Honor........ Most of the other awards came along because people weren't meeting the criteria the "old" achievement medals.... Sorry if I have offended anyone here with this, but IMNSHO, the people degraded your accomplishments by giving you the lesser medal..... Yes, I have the AF Commendation Medals with 3 oak leaves, but I am more proud of the Joint Services Commendation for my MAAG Korea work....... Glad I am gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by LBer1568 on Aug 2, 2014 4:20:48 GMT 9
I don't go back to your early decade Jim, but I entered in 1963 and after tech school was an E-3 at McGuire. We didn't have WAPS back then and with Viet Nam starting, the powers that be "froze" the MA-1 career field to AIC (E-4) and SSgt. Above that was side open. We had over 45 new MA-1 troops come in to 539th in a 5 month period. We had some really sharp troops (Myself included) who we unable to get promoted because our names were red-lined at Division level. Crew Chiefs were getting minimum time promotions and then sent off to SEA. I finally made E-4 after 40 months of service under an AF Lever program called Exceptionally Well Qualified Airmen. My E-4 orders were from HQ AF and were presented at Cmd Call by Division Cmd, a 2-star. I was totally shocked because it wasn't a regular promotion cycle. We ended up separating over 25 A2C (E-3) MA-1 troops at the 4 year mark. WAPS came too late for them. And as an E-3 they couldn't reenlist even if they wanted to. WAPS had it's issues like overrated APR's and relied too much on TIG/TIS. Gave the old timers who didn't know their career fields and advantage. But going back to controlled performance Reviews is a dumb thing. The good ole boys will overate their cronies and great performing troops may not get their top ratings because they weren't part of good ole boys. I can remember when AF cracked down on OER/APR ratings and many Officers were separated due to less than perfect reports. And that was no fault of their own because first OER's turned in used up top slots. I saw several outstanding pilots retire as Major because of one of those less than perfect OER's. I can repeat that I am glad I am not active duty anymore. Some senior officers think they know more than History and want to go back to earlier times in their careers. Lorin |
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,075
Location:
Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF
NBA: Spurs
NFL: Niners
MLB: Giants
NHL: Penguins
|
Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Aug 2, 2014 7:39:56 GMT 9
I appreciate your comments and your perspective, Jim, as you are correct, we lived through all that nonsense.
I lost a strip in 1959, at The SCAB, which was totally my fault for being the squadron drunk.
It was during that period that promotions in the 431xx field went through the floor.
In 1962, whle in 5th FIS, an endorser gave me a negative report.
I was a recent widower with three children under 8 years of age, and trying my best to keep my family together.
Fortunately, I got a lot of help from my in-laws, who lived in Bismarck, who helped with the cost of a housekeeper/nanny for us.
Well, more than helped, they paid the entire salary and took care of the Social Security paperwork.
The endorser, who lived at his desk, wrote a comment that my loyalty was more to my family than to the Air Force.
If he had had his way, he didn't, I would not have been allowed to reenlist.
Come 1964, Lt. Col. Chandler, the Chief of Maintenance asked me why I was not getting promoted.
I honestly told him I didn't know.
Remember, in those days it was almost impossible to read your APR, as they were "secret".
Well, Col. Chandler looked at mine and began the process that got me promoted in 1966.
He changed my reporting official as often as he could, never using the same one twice.
Every APR he would not allow the former endorser to see, but he personally became my endorsing official, then sent it to Lt. Col. Broughton, the Squadron Commander.
Between the two of them, they finagled around the regulations and got me back to SSgt in 1966.
I was beginning to feel I would retire with three stripes.
I was not upset about that, as I knew my losing Staff in 1959 was my fault and no one elses, and was willing to live with the consequences.
And, I really like the Air Force and the job I had.
De and I got married on 2 February 1963, and between our two jobs, we were able to afford to buy a nice house, a pickup with a cab-over camper, plus her car, and had enough money to enjoy life with the family.
However, it was really nice to finally have that 4th strip back on my sleeve.
During that time, mostly under Col. C and Col. B, my jobs were ones calling for 7 or 9 level.
So, I was able to do my job, and eventually got rewarded in the best way.
I got promoted.
An aside for those of you who knew Bill Lacey.
Bill, though MA-1, was one of my biggest supporters and tried to become an RO for me.
Col. C thanked him, but felt it was not going to be accepted higher up.
Bill was the one who first told me I got promoted.
He had tears in his eyes when he told me, which caused me to tear up.
I made TSgt in 1969, whilst at DaNang and retired on 1 February 1972, after telling the Shirt I did not want to be considered for MSgt, and put in my retirement papers.
Promotions have never been "fair", or even "just", but some systems worked better than others.
Like Jim One, I am glad I am no longer in it.
Jim Too
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?? Put him/her on the "To Go List"....... I am surprised that this didn't come out shortly after the circus took over the Dept. of the Air Force...... Maybe reduce the value for TIG and TIS, but then get rid of the bullshit "feel good" ribbons and medals points for any medals other than AF Commendation Medal and with V, Joint Services Commendation Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Air Medal, Purple Heart, Bronze Star and V, Airman's Medal, DFC, ? Legion of Merit- any enlisted ever get this one?, Silver Star, maybe the Distinguished Service Medal, Air Force Cross and the Medal of Honor........ Most of the other awards came along because people weren't meeting the criteria the "old" achievement medals.... Sorry if I have offended anyone here with this, but IMNSHO, the people degraded your accomplishments by giving you the lesser medal..... Yes, I have the AF Commendation Medals with 3 oak leaves, but I am more proud of the Joint Services Commendation for my MAAG Korea work.......
