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Post by Mark O on Jun 19, 2014 8:51:10 GMT 9
Perhaps some of you have read the stories about the 17 bodies recovered from the 1952 crash of 51-0107. There are some very relieved families, and yet there are still 35 men still resting on that Alaskan glacier. What really irks me is the terrible report I read on Fox News of the story. Normally they are pretty good, and yes, I know the AP contributed to the report, but this is particularly bad. They didn't even refer to the aircraft as a C-124; just as a Globemaster, and this passage is especially amateurish. "Only the tail and flippers of the craft were intact, but the tail numbers were enough for an identification." (Emphasis mine.) Now I've been around aviation since I was old enough to put my own plastic kits together as a kid, and I have never seen, or heard of the empannage (or even the elevator) referred to as a "flipper." How the author, and editor allowed that to pass is a reflection on either their laziness, their ignorance, or both in my opinion. www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/18/remains-17-service-members-recovered-from-decades-old-alaska-globemaster-crash/?intcmp=latestnewsThere are better stories covering the recovery of these men, however. I did some poking around, and found this story from 2012 with some history, and of the find. www.businessinsider.com/c-124-crash-november-22-1952-found-in-alaska-2012-6Welcome home men.
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Jun 19, 2014 12:56:16 GMT 9
I was at the SCAB when that particular C-124 crashed.
And very happy to know about the recovery of the men killed in the crash, and that their families can have final closure, after 60 years.
There were other crashes during the Korean War of the 124.
It was a pretty reliable airplane, in spite of the fact that it was supposedly not capable of flight.
Kind of like a Bumble Bee.
In spite of the criticsm it flew and flew well for a long time.
One crash, from Moses Lake as I recall, was caused by the Gust Locks not being removed from the Rudder and Horizontal Stabilizer.
Oh, wait, maybe that should be "Flippers".
I never flew in one, but did do some minor work on one that landed at the SCAB.
It was something to see the clam shell doors open on the nose, then the ramps unfold and extend to the concrete.
The elevator was also a nice touch, and sure made it easy to load and unload cargo from the bird.
One thing I got to do was change the bulb in the Port Wingtip Light.
We didn't have a stand tall enough to reach, so I was elected to hang over the wing tip Heater, with guys holding my legs.
I'm glad I didn't drop the screwdriver, lens or bulb.
But much happier that the other guys didn't drop me.
Jim Too
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Post by LBer1568 on Jun 19, 2014 23:41:52 GMT 9
As a F-106 MA-1 tech we went TDY a lot. I was lucky enough to go to Red Flag at Nellis AFB back in mid 60's. I was selected as Classified Equipment Guardian. So I got to fly in C-124 from old Military Air Transport Service (MATS) at McGuire. Our flight was a resupply mission so it landed at Robbins, then up to WPAFB, then Scott, then Tinker then Nellis. We were on ground about 30 minutes at each stop. We left on Friday and our Squadron left McGuire on Sunday and beat me there. We had a head wind from west at about 90-120 mph at altitude which gave us a ground speed of about 75-80 mph. At least MATS had one of the best in flight lunch systems so I ate well. And yes, the C-124 did indeed "shake" as it flew, especially if any turbulence was active. I wasn't allowed to depart the plane during ground stops as I had to "guard" classified stuff. I was issued an old 1911 .45 cal pistol to defend against the "commies". lol. Oh weren't the old times fun. Lorin
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Post by Mark O on Jun 20, 2014 16:55:38 GMT 9
As a F-106 MA-1 tech we went TDY a lot. I was lucky enough to go to Red Flag at Nellis AFB back in mid 60's. I was selected as Classified Equipment Guardian. So I got to fly in C-124 from old Military Air Transport Service (MATS) at McGuire. Our flight was a resupply mission so it landed at Robbins, then up to WPAFB, then Scott, then Tinker then Nellis. We were on ground about 30 minutes at each stop. We left on Friday and our Squadron left McGuire on Sunday and beat me there. We had a head wind from west at about 90-120 mph at altitude which gave us a ground speed of about 75-80 mph. At least MATS had one of the best in flight lunch systems so I ate well. And yes, the C-124 did indeed "shake" as it flew, especially if any turbulence was active. I wasn't allowed to depart the plane during ground stops as I had to "guard" classified stuff. I was issued an old 1911 .45 cal pistol to defend against the "commies". lol. Oh weren't the old times fun. Lorin Yea, I remember my days in the Army as a COMSEC custodian! Took a two-week course down at Bad Tolz, but for the most part an E-4 that worked for me did most of the courier work when we were stationed in Ansbach, FRG. He carried a little .38 revolver with him mostly making runs around our outlying kasernes in Bavaria. During Desert Shield/Desert Storm I pretty much had a KYK-13 hung from my neck 24/7! Regularly loaded most of our 1st Armored Division HQ, G-2 radios with the crypto! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KYK-13Yep, fun!
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Post by Mark O on Jun 21, 2014 14:30:29 GMT 9
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Post by Jim on Jul 26, 2014 11:10:24 GMT 9
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,075
Location:
Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF NBA: Spurs NFL: Niners MLB: Giants NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Jul 26, 2014 23:13:08 GMT 9
Does anyone know what the total number recoverd is?
Is this group all, and how many more are still in/on the glacier?
Seems with all the high tech stuff the military has, they should be able to pinpoint where anyone or anything is in the ice.
Great that some have finally been recovered, and their families can have closure.
Now, what about the ones who are alive in Mexico and the Near East, who are imprisoned?
Over 80,000 still listed as MIA from WW2, Korea, Vietnam and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"We never leave a member of our military behind."
Jim Too
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Post by Jim on Aug 17, 2014 4:50:10 GMT 9
Got this from Capt. Brown shoes............ The C-124 Globemaster II reminds me of a bumblebee, because its wings looked too small for the size of its "body,"
but it was a fine prop transport that took me to basic training in 1968, and was in service until 1974.
Today "Zero/Zero" landings (the bottom of the clouds on the deck, and there is no forward visibility)
using advanced instrument landing systems and advance electronic autopilots are not a big deal.
But when you had to "Hand Fly" the approach, as they did when "Old Shakey" was operating, it was very "dicey."
Here is an event, forwarded from Al Bruce via Bill Kratch, I thought you flying types might enjoy.
(If any of the terms are confusing, there is a short Glossary at the end.)
Zero/Zero
by Charles Svoboda
C-124 Globemaster C-124C Globemaster II.jpg
It happened sometime in 1965, in Germany. I was a copilot, so I knew, everything there was to know about flying, and I was frustrated by pilots like my aircraft commander. He was one of those by-the-numbers types, no class, no imagination, no "feel" for flying. You have to be able to feel an airplane. So what if your altitude is a little off, or if the glideslope indicator is off a hair? If it feels okay then it is okay. That's what I believed.
Every time he let me make an approach, even in VFR conditions, he demanded perfection. Not the slightest deviation was permitted. "If you can't do it when there is no pressure, you surely can't do it when the pucker factor increases," he would say. When he shot an approach, it was as if all the instruments were frozen - perfection, but no class.
Then came that routine flight from the Azores to Germany. The weather was okay; we had 45,000 pounds of fuel and enough cargo to bring the weight of our C-124 Globemaster up to 180,000 pounds, 5,000 pounds below the max allowable. It would be an easy, routine flight all the way.
Halfway to the European mainland, the weather started getting bad. I kept getting updates by high frequency radio. Our destination, a fighter base, went zero/zero. Our two alternates followed shortly thereafter. All of France was down. We held for two hours, and the weather got worse. Somewhere I heard a fighter pilot declare an emergency because of minimum fuel. He shot two approaches and saw nothing. On the third try, he flamed out and had to eject.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Douglas_C-124_Globemaster_II_cockpit.JPG upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Douglas_C-124_Globemaster_II_flight_engineer_station.JPG
Cockpit of a C-124 Flight Engineer Panel of a C-124
We made a precision radar approach; there was nothing but fuzzy fog at minimums. The sun was setting. Now I started to sweat a little. I turned on the instrument lights. When I looked out to where the wings should be, I couldn't even see the navigation lights 85 feet from my eyes. I could barely make out a dull glow from the exhaust stacks of the closest engine, and then only on climb power.
When we reduced power to maximum endurance, that friendly glow faded. The pilot asked the engineer where we stood on fuel. The reply was, "I don't know--- we're so low that the book says the gauges are unreliable below this point." The navigator became a little frantic. We didn't carry parachutes on regular MAC flights, so we couldn't follow the fighter pilot's example. We would land or crash with the airplane.
The pilot then asked me which of the two nearby fighter bases had the widest runway. I looked it up and we declared an emergency as we headed for that field.
The pilot then began his briefing. "This will be for real. No missed approach. We'll make an ILS and get precision radar to keep us honest. Copilot, we'll use half flaps. That'll put the approach speed a little higher, but the pitch angle will be almost level, requiring less attitude change in the flare."
Why hadn't I thought of that? Where was my "feel" and "class" now? The briefing continued, "I'll lock on the gauges. You get ready to take over and complete the landing if you see the runway - that way there will be less room for trouble with me trying to transition from instruments to visual with only a second or two before touchdown."
Hey, he's even going to take advantage of his copilot, I thought. He's not so stupid, after all. "Until we get the runway, you call off every 100 feet above touchdown; until we get down to 100 feet, use the pressure altimeter. Then switch to the radar altimeter for the last 100 feet, and call off every 25 feet. Keep me honest on the airspeed, also. Engineer, when we touch down, I'll cut the mixtures with the master control lever, and you cut all of the mags. Are there any questions? Let's go!"
All of a sudden, this unfeeling, by the numbers robot was making a lot of sense. Maybe he really was a pilot and maybe I had something more to learn about flying. We made a short procedure turn to save gas. Radar helped us to get to the outer marker. Half a mile away, we performed the Before Landing Checklist; gear down, flaps 20 degrees. The course deviation indicator was locked in the middle, with the glide slope indicator beginning its trip down from the top of the case.
When the GSI centered, the pilot called for a small power reduction, lowered the nose slightly, and all of the instruments, except the altimeter, froze.
My Lord, that man had a feel for that airplane! He thought something, and the airplane, all 135,000 pounds of it, did what he thought. "Five hundred feet," I called out, "400 feet ... 300 feet … 200 feet, MATS minimums … 100 feet, Air Force minimums; I'm switching to the radar altimeter … 75 feet nothing in sight .... 50 feet, still nothing at 25 feet, airspeed 100 knots."
The nose of the aircraft rotated just a couple of degrees, and the airspeed started down. The pilot then casually said, "Hang on, we're landing." "Airspeed 90 knots…¦.10 feet, here we go!" The pilot reached up and cut the mixtures with the master control lever, without taking his eyes off the instruments. He told the engineer to cut all the mags to reduce the chance of fire.
CONTACT! I could barely feel it. As smooth a landing as I have ever known, and I couldn't even tell if we were on the runway, because we could only see the occasional blur of a light streaking by. "Copilot, verify hydraulic boost is on, I'll need it for brakes and steering." I complied. "Hydraulic boost pump is on, pressure is up." The brakes came on slowly---we didn't want to skid this big beast now. I looked over at the pilot. He was still on the instruments, steering to keep the course deviation indicator in the center, and that is exactly where it stayed.
"Airspeed, 50 knots." We might make it yet. "Airspeed, 25 knots." We'll make it if we don't run off a cliff. Then I heard a strange sound. I could hear the whir of the gyros, the buzz of the inverters, and a low frequency thumping. Nothing else. The thumping was my pulse, and I couldn't hear anyone breathing. We had made it! We were standing still!
The aircraft commander was still all pilot. "After-landing checklist, get all those motors, radar and un-necessary radios off while we still have batteries. Copilot, tell them that we have arrived, to send a follow me truck out to the runway because we can't even see the edges." I left the VHF on and thanked GCA for the approach.
The guys in the tower didn't believe we were there. They had walked outside and couldn't hear or see anything. We assured them that we were there, somewhere on the localizer centerline, with about half a mile showing on the DME. We waited about 20 minutes for the truck. Not being in our customary hurry, just getting our breath back and letting our pulses diminish to a reasonable rate.
Then I felt it. The cockpit shuddered as if the nose gear had run over a bump. I told the loadmaster to go out the crew entrance to see what happened. He dropped the door (which is immediately in front of the nose gear), and it hit something with a loud, metallic bang. He came on the interphone and said "Sir, you'll never believe this. The follow-me truck couldn't see us and ran smack into our nose tire with his bumper, but he bounced off, and nothing is hurt."
The pilot then told the tower that we were parking the bird right where it was and that we would come in via the truck. It took a few minutes to get our clothing and to button up the airplane. I climbed out and saw the nose tires straddling the runway centerline. A few feet away was the truck with its embarrassed driver.
Total damage---one dent in the hood of the follow me truck where the hatch had opened onto it. Then I remembered the story from Fate Is the Hunter. When Gann was an airline copilot making a simple night range approach, his captain kept lighting matches in front of his eyes. It scarred and infuriated Gann. When they landed, the captain said that Gann was ready to upgrade to captain. If he could handle a night-range approach with all of that harassment, then he could handle anything.
At last I understood what true professionalism is. Being a pilot isn't all seat-of-the-pants flying and glory. Its self- discipline, practice, study, analysis and preparation. It's precision. If you can't keep the gauges where you want them with everything free and easy, how can you keep them there when everything goes wrong?
www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/airplane_crashes/globemaster_larson/globemaster_welker_c124_1.jpg
modelingmadness.com/review/korean/us/usaf/attard124k.jpg
In this photo you can see the open crew door hatch in the right cargo clamshell door.
Terms
DME - Distance Measuring Equipment, an avionic device to indicate how far you are from a radio navigation station.
GCA - Ground Controlled Approach, which really means a ground radar operator "talking you down."
GSI - Glide Slope Indicator, part of an instrument landing radio system that indicates your proper elevation throughout an approach to landing
ILS - Instrument Landing System, comprised of two directional radio beams; a glideslope and a course deviation beam.
MAC - Military Airlift Command, the predecessor to today's AMC (Air Mobility Command)
Mags - Magnetos. Basically each cylinder has two spark plugs. The engine is secured and safe by turning off the 'mags' to these plugs.
Old Shakey - The aircrew nickname for the Douglas C-124 Globemaster II flown by the USAF from 1950 until 1974.
VHF - Very High frequency Communication Radios
VFR - Visual Flight Rules, as opposed to IFR (Instrument Flight Rules)
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,075
Location:
Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF NBA: Spurs NFL: Niners MLB: Giants NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Aug 17, 2014 8:08:43 GMT 9
Great story.
Real flying.
Jim Too
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