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Post by Mark O on Mar 1, 2014 17:05:02 GMT 9
Yea, hell of a fight. Good video that really highlights the air support including lots on TAC Airlift, and the B-52s, but certainly not the whole story... And the wiki page... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Niagara |
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Post by Diamondback on Mar 1, 2014 20:06:55 GMT 9
I forget which book it was in, might've been Boyne's, but I recall a line thus:
"Bombing 'just outside the wire,' the BUFFs saved countless firebases such as Khe Sanh from being overrun."
Maybe a bit of SAC chest-thumping, but somewhat justified. I also read an anecdote where Charlie had figured out that they couldn't bomb within a certain distance of friendlies, so to get the BUFF crews to drop Danger Close as needed the ground controller had to massage the coordinates a little--when the action was done, it led to a brief argument about the range, but proved the old warhorse capable of more precision than anyone expected.
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Post by Jim on Mar 2, 2014 1:11:50 GMT 9
I forget which book it was in, might've been Boyne's, but I recall a line thus: "Bombing 'just outside the wire,' the BUFFs saved countless firebases such as Khe Sanh from being overrun."Maybe a bit of SAC chest-thumping, but somewhat justified. I also read an anecdote where Charlie had figured out that they couldn't bomb within a certain distance of friendlies, so to get the BUFF crews to drop Danger Close as needed the ground controller had to massage the coordinates a little--when the action was done, it led to a brief argument about the range, but proved the old warhorse capable of more precision than anyone expected. I doubt the veracity of the statement . Thus began what many considered "the most concentrated application of aerial firepower in the history of warfare".[79] On an average day 350 tactical fighter-bombers, 60 B-52s, and 30 light observation or reconnaissance aircraft operated in the skies near the base.[80] Westmoreland had already ordered the nascent Igloo White to assist in the Marine defense.[78] On 22 January, the first sensor drops took place and, by the end of the month, 316 acoustic and seismic sensors had been dropped in 44 strings.[81] The sensors were implanted by a special Naval squadron, Observation Squadron Sixty-Seven, VO-67. The Marines at KSCB credited 40 percent of intelligence available to their fire support coordination center to the sensors.[82] By the end of the battle of Khe Sanh, U.S. Air Force assets had flown 9,691 tactical sorties and dropped 14,223 tons of bombs on targets within the Khe Sanh area. Marine Corps aviators had flown 7,098 missions and released 17,015 tons. Naval aircrews, many of whom were redirected from Operation Rolling Thunder strikes against North Vietnam, flew 5,337 sorties and dropped 7,941 tons of ordnance in the area.[83] Westmoreland later wrote that "Washington so feared that some word of it might reach the press that I was told to desist, ironically answering what those consequences could be: a political disaster.[84] |
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 2, 2014 1:53:00 GMT 9
Yea, hell of a fight. Good video that really highlights the air support including lots on TAC Airlift, and the B-52s, but certainly not the whole story... And the wiki page... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Niagara
I don't know how many of our F-4s were involved, but we were goind strong 24/7.
Many of our flights were over Laos, where the Trail was, and the F-4 was pretty good at dropping junk with fairly good accuracy.
However, it cost some planes and crews, as well as some damages birds coming home to roost.
I left Thailand on 2 February 1968, and had a couple of extra days in Bangkok because of the Tet Offensive.
There were lots of birds going to the North, supporting the troops around Hue and other places being attacked.
It was not just the Hue area that was under attack, but DaNang and other U.S. bases were getting hit.
The infighting between the Military Branches, mistrust by Johnson and MacNamara of the RVN Military, as well as our other allies, and the micromanging of the war by Johnson and his SECDEF, caused the loss of lots of lives, on both sides, waste of lots of equipment and munitions.
Even in the AF there was infighting.
Thirteenth AF at Clark was at odds with 7th AF at Saigon, as well as with the Puzzle Palace.
It was like a team of horses all pulling in different directions and the field not getting plowed.
During all of this, our pilots from Ubon and other bases, were sent out on missions, ran in to bad weather and had to abandon their primary target, and looked for targets of opportunity.
All-too-often, when a target was found, like a bridge or truck convoy, they would call it in, then loiter while waiting for permission to attack.
Most often they were told to return to base and drop their bombs in the River.
Politics in Washington and the U.N. caused us to lose a war that we had one.
I was disgusted then, and still am, that our "leaders" would have such little regard for our troops, so they could play political games.
When I got transferred to DaNang, in Sept. 1968, nothing had been resolved, as LBJ and his gang of crooks, were pulling the same stunts.
When Nixon took office he gave a pretty good degree of freedom to area commanders, and things got better.
However, politics being politics on the International scene, things went backward and we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and gave the whole country to the Communists.
I don't think we will ever see the whole story of Nam, only those bits and pieces that are slowly coming out some 40 years later.
Nam, like Iraq and Afghanistan should probably never happened by my thinking.
If we are not going to go in to combat with the goal of winning, then don't go.
I'm sure the vast majority of our Military went to war to win, however the pencil pushers and so called "leaders" didn't.
Goes back to Korea, and has just carried on.
I'm through with my rant.
For now.
Jim Too
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,075
Location:
Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF
NBA: Spurs
NFL: Niners
MLB: Giants
NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 2, 2014 2:03:03 GMT 9
I forget which book it was in, might've been Boyne's, but I recall a line thus: "Bombing 'just outside the wire,' the BUFFs saved countless firebases such as Khe Sanh from being overrun."Maybe a bit of SAC chest-thumping, but somewhat justified. I also read an anecdote where Charlie had figured out that they couldn't bomb within a certain distance of friendlies, so to get the BUFF crews to drop Danger Close as needed the ground controller had to massage the coordinates a little--when the action was done, it led to a brief argument about the range, but proved the old warhorse capable of more precision than anyone expected. I doubt the veracity of the statement .
The AF has mostly been run by "Bomber Guys", who seek all the glory for the Bombers.
The B-52 may have dropped a lot of bombs "near" fire bases, but it was the actual, real, CAS that saved them from destruction.
The Spad, Spooky, C-119, C-123 and C-130 Gunships, B/A 26s, along with armed helicopters, Navy A-4s and A-6s, plus AF and Navy F-4s, did the bulk of the CAS, though there were also Navy F-8s and AF F-100s and A-7s as well.
They were at ground level, or close to it, where the BUFF was way up in the clouds, hoping no MIGs were in the area, or SAMs.
Jim Too
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