yep sure did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will find it again
Not just the Deuce, but Convair, are not his favourites.
I didn't check his figures, but know the Deuce was not a great interceptor, as it was slow, had limited range and the weapons were not great.
When I was at The Goose, Summer of 1960, we were scheduled to transiton from the F-89J, another "dog", to the F-101B, again a bird carrying Falcons, along with Genies, like the F-89J.
However, the Canadian government decided it didn't want U.S. planes carrying nuclear weapons stationed in their country, so we got the Deuce, which was not equipped to carry a nuclear weapon.
The writer of the video presentation lists the Deuce as carrying a nuclear Falcon, but I don't know when that change took place.
I'm sure on many issues the author is correct about the Deuce, but think his analysis of the Six is skewed, except for the weapons.
Having been a crew chief on a TF-102A, and working with them in the Alert Hanger, I was not overly fond of the Deuce, but didn't find it that bad to work on, especially after working on the Scorpion.
I have no experience on the avionics, or weapons systems, so don't know how bad of good they were, except that they spent a lot of time with panels open, boxes removed and technicians saying bad words at it.
The pilots didn't like the TF, as it had some strange flight charcteristics, caused by the giant nose, but they seemed to get along with the single seater.
What God says is best, is best, though all the men in the world are against it. - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress
From a Former Deuce and Six pilot from the 27th FIS, Capt Brownshoes aka Roger D'entremont
I flew the Duce from summer of 1959 to summer 1961 at Hahn, Germany.
The Duce replaced the F-86D, which fired a total of 24 2.75 Folding Fin air to air rockets.
I personally would have liked to had 20 mm cannons like the F-86K used by some NATO allies.
I have fired dozens of the 2.75 unguided rockets in the F-86D and considered their use similar to a shotgun blast.
The Duces at Hahn and other USAFE bases were not armed with 2.75 rockets, at least not while I was there.
The dog was good in its’ day as an all-weather interceptor. The rockets were all right, I hit every target I shot at.
Between Tyndall and Wheelus, I probably have shot at 150-200 targets.
If 1 or 2 rocket’s fins out of my normal 6 rocket selection didn’t extend correctly, they would corkscrew and go wherever they wanted.
The others usually flew straight and true. Each rocket was equivalent to a 75 mm cannon shell.
90% of the 2.75 FFAR went where I intended them to go.
I figured that in a dog fight ( the dog didn’t turn too well above 35,000’) I’d have to fire without pulling any Gs.
I thought that would be tricky, but doable. I could go after bombers any time of the day, any type of weather up to about 45,000’.
The Duce replaced the Dog because it was faster, turned better than any NATO fighter I ever engaged, and could easily get to 50,000’ or higher.
The Duce could out turn anything NATO had during the time I was flying it.
Soviet bloc Camel transports could out run the dog unless I used intermittent afterburner. We were ordered to fly formation with them while overflying Belgium and Germany because the Russians were harassing our flights into Berlin. In the Duce, I could stay with a Camel by using 75-80% power or less. Never needed afterburner.
I could pick up a Camel at 100 to 125 miles on the Duce’s Fig 6 radar. I could lock on at 30 miles.
The radar had look down capability. It wasn’t the greatest, but again doable.
The MB1 Genie traveled at Mach 3 plus my speed. It was a 10 second unguided time bomb.
Most firing signals I got occurred at 15-20 miles from my target. The range was way more than 6 miles as stated in the video.
The Genie was designed against bomber formations and would vaporize anything within a mile and knock off the wings of anything within 5 miles.
We had to make a quick 4 G evasive turn as soon as the missile was gone. The belly was supposed to be exposed to the blast to shield me from whatever.
I was supposed to lose 10 days of my life every time I fired an MB1
I wish both the Duce and Six had Gatling guns. Neither had any guns when I flew them.
Both the Duce and the Dart had the triangle canopy when I flew them. The steel bar in the middle of both the windshield and the canopy was there for ramming.
If I ran out of ammo and had a hydrogen equipped bomber in my sight, I was supposed to ram it. The Gatling gun cancelled the ram tactic and made use of the bubble canopy.
I could see out front good enough. If I wanted to see what was under me I rolled the wings. There was no rear vision, but again both were designed as interceptors and were primarily GCI controlled from the ground.
The Dog, Duce, and Dart were primary Air Defense weapons during the “Cold War”. They all were interceptors, designed to attack bomber formations.
In Europe, we had USAF and NATO “day fighters” to engage in typical dog fighting. I guess a point could be made that it was an expensive luxury to have a different fighter for VFR conditions and having another capable of all-weather interception.
I liked the delta wing because it held an enormous amount of fuel. With the Dog I returned for many combat air patrols with 300- 500 pounds of fuel, just enough for 1 GCI-GCA in absolutely terrible weather. Normally, there was no fuel problem in routine missions with the Duce and Dart. The Six could fly 750 nm, fight for 15 minutes and return safely.
I have defended Detroit from Loring during war games. We were always 500-600 miles north of Loring during war games.
Neither delta had flaps. Final approach was 170 kts with a very high nose angle. It was different, but something I got used to quickly. Both planes flew well in that condition.
Both deltas were stable platforms and flew easily and well in all weather conditions. Both planes were light on the controls and very responsive to my inputs.
I don’t know anybody who flew the Duce in Viet Nam. The described tactical use of the plane sounds terrible.
I would have preferred Sidewinders instead of Falcons. I never fired a Falcon.
I only know that the missiles used in Viet Nam weren’t too hot.
One reason they got rid of the Duces and Sixes because one man controlled an atomic device. One nut could have caused a lot of grief.
Of course, F-4 was a combination interceptor and day fighter. I bounced a Navy F-4 ( or whatever they call it) over Miramar one time.
I slowed down to get behind the Navy guy, lit the afterburner and turned the Six on its tail, expecting to easily out turn him.
He slowed down, lit 2 afterburners and turned way inside of me. Realizing the futility of this encounter, I split s’d and safely retained my virginity.
(Ray Ide and I were Loring pilots based at George for 4 months in 1962, testing a new, totally smaller version of GCI control.
They squeezed a 4 story warehouse control site into an 18 wheeler trailer.)
Note the deuce that opened its weapons doors and fired FFRs.... One or two hung up in the tube - burning!!!!!!! Pilot did get out- ejected sideways!!!!!!! Note Rogers comments about the windshield, and canopy as to why they were the way they were- Along with his downward visibility...... Jim
The Old Sarge What is Irish diplomacy? It’s the ability to tell a man to go to hell, in such a manner he will look forward to making the trip. And buy his ticket!
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lindel: While I don't have a cheap phone, I DO have insurance on it...should it fall into a outhouse or similar, it can stay there...insurance WILL take care of it.
May 15, 2022 3:53:15 GMT 9
johncarr: I wonder if any one can help me find a friend from Det 2 48fis Robert Puls He was the chute man Got maried while he was at homestead I left the in Feb 73 my Email is [email protected]ol.com
Feb 5, 2022 12:14:03 GMT 9
Bullhunter: Yery well said !
Dec 13, 2021 6:14:51 GMT 9
flypapajohn: SMSGT James Gier, USAF Retired, passed away last evening! "The Old Sarge" was one of many great crew chiefs that I had the honor of knowing! Allan John Kelly, Lt Col USAF Retired
Oct 7, 2021 2:40:54 GMT 9
Diamondback: Wave returned, Mike, though different vintage--my grandfather was a Green Dragon around '65-'70ish including Osan; one of the last out of NATO Chateauroux and a lot of that planeload ended up posted at McChord.
May 6, 2021 3:40:17 GMT 9
oswald: what happened to the forum?
Apr 14, 2020 7:41:01 GMT 9
ma1marv: Thank you for this info! I need to get back here more often!
Jan 26, 2020 5:18:54 GMT 9
bobski9933: :-/Hey Sixers, I'm looking for any T.O. that listed weights of MA-1 heavy parts, like Stable Table, Radar Antenna, TR Unit, Magnatron, etc. How much did the "05 hell/door: weigh? How about Ground Service Equipment? for a VA back Disability Claim.
Dec 31, 2019 8:01:39 GMT 9
Bullhunter: Pat Mcgee, I told 3 people how to order your key chains today.
Oct 6, 2019 15:15:34 GMT 9
sand4u: I was a F106 mechanic at George AFB 329th FIS from June 1963 to Jan 1967,swing shift mostly,worked on all the aircraft we had there.
Jul 31, 2019 4:21:21 GMT 9
pat perry: bobdavis Tell Armstrong's son to join Convair F-106 Delta Dart group on FaceBook and post his Dad's info. They have over 5000 members and his chances of finding those who served with his dad are better.
Jun 19, 2019 2:33:35 GMT 9
pat perry: On 12-31-2013 this was posted for LtCol Armstrong, Henry W by his son: I am signing on behalf of my father Lt Col HW Armstrong deceased 1-2-01 Skilled 102, 106, 101, 100 pilot and Cheif or Operations for the QF102, QF106 and QF 100 programs at Holloman AFB
Jun 19, 2019 2:00:59 GMT 9
bobdavis: I met a gentleman on another forum who say my signature F106 photo and messaged me. He said his Dad flew F106's back in the day. He said his name was Hank Armstrong. Did anyone know of him? Thanks in advance. Bob Davis 48th FIS and 4756th ABG
May 9, 2019 5:27:19 GMT 9