Military/Air Force/Aircraft buffs might enjoy this video.
Fast (super-cruise*) and stealthy, and integrated avionics are cool, but what's really impressive is the F/A-22s low speed stability and maneuverability. In the late 40s and to early 60s aeronautical engineers were going nuts on how to shape intakes to handle both subsonic and super-sonic air flows, without stagnation or compressor stalls. Supersonic in itself was a big challenge because you had to use shock waves to slow the intake air mass to sub-sonic before it hit the compressor blades, or they would stall. The engineers figured it out, but the solution was keeping a lot of air going in the front end to make sure the all hot air kept going out the back end. As you watch this Mach 2 airplane suspend motionless in air and do tail slides, be aware of the truly amazing performance of the engines and intakes.
Some used to think the Su-27 / Su-31 "Cobra" maneuver was the epitome of 3rd to 4th generation fighter maneuverability. That snap maneuver doesn't hold a candle to what this two-dimensional vectored-thrust fighter with fat independent horizontal stabs can do at low speed. There must be far more tricks up its sleeve in the high subsonic dogfight speed range..
The video is about 5 minutes long but the last 30-40 seconds are priceless.
Watch the elevators of the airplane in this demo. They work independently. It also has vectored thrust.
*Supercruise: The F/A-22 can sustain supersonic flight without the use of fuel-gulping afterburners.
if the 35 is supposed to be better than the 22, cant wait to see a demo on THAT bird.
Welcome Robyn, I have the feeling you're a ringer. And that you can stand being in with the guys, and will probably teach a bunch of us a lot of things.
if the 35 is supposed to be better than the 22, cant wait to see a demo on THAT bird.
Yeah like the F-16 was better than the F-15. I remember standing on the tarmac watching the first F-15 land at Langley. First Fighter used to do a 10 min airshow every Friday. My son just PCS'd to Langley this month. Dad watched the 15s and now son gets to watch the 22s.
Post by steve201 (deceased) on Apr 23, 2012 12:56:58 GMT 9
pretty awesome...but I'd wished they had procured the F23....that was a pretty airplane and looked awesome...I know it cruised faster but don't know much else than that...
Steve
Steve
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My ANG unit is the first ANG unit to fly the F-22. This past weekend, I got the nickel tour of the jet. That is one AWESOME flying machine! It's about as similar to a Six as a Six is to a P-51. Part of me would love to go back to working on them, and part of me wants no part of them. Since I'm now too old to serve, I guess I won't be working on them.
For those who have not been close to one, it's about the same size as a Six and much larger than a Viper. Independent horizontal tails are nothing new. Both the F-15 and F-16, as well as the F-14 have them.
pretty awesome...but I'd wished they had procured the F23....that was a pretty airplane and looked awesome...I know it cruised faster but don't know much else than that...
Steve
I agree with you Steve. For more info go here; another great site for answers & fun stuff.
However, I don't know if there is much tactical use "levitating" in almost the same spot like in the video. Only for show perhaps? Unhealthy making yourself a stationary target and without speed for manouvering fast to the direction you have vectored?
Still I bet the Raptor is the best fighter ever.
However, you can do stuff even without thrust vectoring nozzles.
Not my place to brag since I'm not a pilot at all, but here is a Finnish Air Force F-18 at RIAT Air Show 2009:
However, I don't know if there is much tactical use "levitating" in almost the same spot like in the video. Only for show perhaps? Unhealthy making yourself a stationary target and without speed for manouvering fast to the direction you have vectored?
being able to land on a couple desk tops, or taking off without any roll would probable be useful in some theatres of operation. I've seen videos of the Hawker landing in a picnic area, being refueled and re-armed and taking off to continue the battle. Those capabilities are not just for show, there are highly practical reasons for about everything it can do, or it probability wouldn't be able to do them.
Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Sept 5, 2012 8:45:29 GMT 9
Can anyone give me a really good reason why we need to buy the F-22 or F-35, when we have planes like the F/A-18, the F-15 and F-16, which are perfectly capable of doing the job?
I know, we need to have newer, more whatever??, fighters.
Right!
Remember the posts about the upgrade of the Six that was proposed?
Well, there have been upgrades proposed for the F-15, the F-16, and further upgrades to the F/A-18.
These birds will fulfill any mission needed, and cost a bunch less per machine than the F-22 and F-35.
O.K., the new ones have vectoring, hover, or the F-35 can land or take-off like a Harrier.
Fine, upgrade the Harrier.
Does anyone know when the last Dogfight was?
Since, like forever, fighters have been armed with missiles, capable of shooting something down miles away.
Know why the C-130 has not been replaced, and is still being built?
Yep, it is still doing the mission it was designed for and keeping up with the mission needs many moons later.
Was there ever a better fighter bomber than the Navy A-6?
We have discussed the Warthog, and found it perfectly capable for many years.
Well, maybe some upgrades to keep it that way.
The F-16 is still being made in export models.
So, why not new ones for us.
I know, we have to have all the capabilities available to us.
Do we?
Back to the Six.
With some changes of engine and electronics, not changing anything else, it would still be the best interceptor in the sky.
But, Russia and China are building newer fighters.
Whoopee!
Let them waste their money on a small number of planes that will be able to do lots of neat things at air shows, but maybe not when it comes to the real mission.
The F-22 and F-35, to this point in time, have been shown to be the most expensive "White Elephants" flying, and getting more expensive every day.
Well, that's my two Rupees worth.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
What God says is best, is best, though all the men in the world are against it. - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress
definitely a highly maneuverable a/c....that pilot was putting her thru her paces...lucky dog...
Here's another video of a Finnish F/A-18 C. This time mixed with cockpit view. Looks like they have unplugged the attitude and G limiters (if they ever had them) to do those almost russian style stunts. Btw if you don't like that type of music (I don't), just turn the damn sound off.
being able to land on a couple desk tops, or taking off without any roll would probable be useful in some theatres of operation. I've seen videos of the Hawker landing in a picnic area, being refueled and re-armed and taking off to continue the battle. Those capabilities are not just for show, there are highly practical reasons for about everything it can do, or it probability wouldn't be able to do them.
I was referring only to the specific moves that the F-22 did on the video and wondered if they as such have practical use. But so it is always with air show aerobatics with any type of plane.
But sure, vectored thrust helps in shorter runways. However, there is other ways for that. Like the Finnish Hornets when operating from ad hoc highway runways use Navy-style arresting hooks, with mobile cables and even nets.
Then vectored thrust greatly improves dogfighting abilities. Increases the ability to dodge missiles. Helps to point the nose to fire your own weapons. Sadly the last two might soon be obsolete. Missiles are getting harder and harder if not impossible to dodge. And when firing all-aspect missiles it does not matter much where your nose is pointing. With guns, sure.
I kind of agree with Jim Scanlon's rant. However, the amount of F-22's was cut to only 190. Which is relatively few by U.S measures. It's is only a "silver bullet" force for special needs.
Then the "wonderplane" that is supposed to replace almost everything else, the F-35, is in my opinion a disappointment and a lemon. The Finnish Air Force is already planning for a Hornet successor, and I sure hope they choose the Eurofighter and not the F-35.
Yes, the F-35 is stealthy. Yes it has a long range. Yes it has the most modern avionics.
But even the Finnish press has published reports of surprising structular fatique, and how the avionics don't really work. The STOVL B-model is still too heavy to land vertically without dumping fuel first. The A and C don't have thrust vectoring, neither does the tailpipe of B really work like that. They can't turn better than a legacy F-16 or F/A-18. The damn thing is slow and can't even supercruise like a fifth generation fighter is expected to.
B would be a nice Harrier replacement, otherwise they look like they needed escort fighters to support them! So as a layman I can't understand what the hype is for and where's the beef.
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STOL would be benefitted by nets, cables, etc, but that is still an improvement to a specific landing area.
They're talking about VTOL, no runway, no net, no improvement, just UP and DOWN. Takeoff and land from a back yard, or a clearing in a forest.
One would suspect that one would try to land AFTER A MISSION, and there wouldnt NEED to be a fuel dump. And if there were, SO WHAT? Mission to completion includes refuel, re arm, take off, kill the enemy, DO IT AGAIN!!
The main reason to replace F-15,F-16 and F-18 is fatigue. These are older aircraft with high hours. Sure they can do life extension activities like new wing spars and engine refresh, but you still have older aircraft that will not last forever. C-130's, B-52's can be life extended much easier because they don't pull high G's on a daily basis. We can also sell the older aircraft to Allies and recomp some of our expenses.
They pulled the plug on the wrong aircraft. Development should have continued on the F-22, along with a fix for it's current woes. Now, as usual when Congress/WH gets involved, we're stuck with what appears to be an inferior product.
Liberalism is equal parts bigotry and politics, with a side of hypocrisy.
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Yeah like the F-16 was better than the F-15. I remember standing on the tarmac watching the first F-15 land at Langley. First Fighter used to do a 10 min airshow every Friday. My son just PCS'd to Langley this month. Dad watched the 15s and now son gets to watch the 22s. 
