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Post by MArv Donnelly on Mar 30, 2004 22:52:10 GMT 9
Somewhere in the annals of past memory, when I was at a debriefing of ACT, I recall hearing the pilot talk about the manuver he referred to as "the kite". The manuver was described as shoving the throttle full forward to pickup speed, slightly nose down attitude, then a snap up to vertical and pull throttle back to idle and let the bird lay on its back and start to fall/flutter like a kite. then watch over your shoulder as the pursuer ran by you and under you. Then to get out and behind the target, you would roll the acft and advance throttle to pull in behind the target. My questions are as follows;  Was that the name of the manuver? How effective was it in getting on a target? Which targets (other aircraft) was it most effective on?  Was it better when you worked with a wingman?  Who came up with that manuver in the first place?  Inquiring minds want to know!  |
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Post by Jim Gier on Mar 31, 2004 0:08:42 GMT 9
MArv, don't know what it was called, or who invented it,
but it was risky in a P-51 and you used the add'l hp for less than 10 sec after you pulled the stickinto your gut.
I never had the guts to complete it----I always rolled out before I got to the top----afraid that the engine would skip more than a beat when you pushed the gas handle forward....When that Merlin belched on acceleration, it had a tendancy to turn your shorts brown....................
Now, if any jet driver of the SIX or the Thud has done this, it would be Col Ross Shulmister (spelling now correct)
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LtCol M Ross Shulmister
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Post by LtCol M Ross Shulmister on Mar 31, 2004 19:32:26 GMT 9
Never heard of "the kite" maneuver. The two most useless things in air combat are altitude above you and airspeed you don't have, followed closely by minimal control pressure, and low engine thrust. In defensive air-to-air combat, you must be so "all over the sky" that the enemy behind you can't track you with his weapon system (or, if he manages to get a missile off, the missile cannot track you and remain within its flight envelope). A wide closure angle helps (I want him off to the side – not behind me). I want to be flying so uncoordinated and pulling so many G's that he has no idea of what he can do to stay behind me. I NEVER want my airspeed to be below Max L/D, except maybe momentarily while maneuvering wildly and trying to get him to overshoot (and then only if I can quickly regain airspeed with thrust with or without afterburner). Seems to me a "kite" maneuver in a Thud would be an invitation to see whether the ejection system could survive a direct hit. The F-105 air-to-air combat repertoire consists of pulling the trigger when some enemy idiot pilot decides to fly in front of you (and believe it or not, it happened in Vietnam on several occasions). The F-105 defensive tactic was to lower the nose, engage afterburner, and outrun the fool who thought he could keep up with you (F-105 had the highest sealevel airspeed of anything in anyone's inventory). By the way, did you know we had a "rule of engagement" in Vietnam that forbade us to shoot at an enemy aircraft that had landing gear down ?? Now, back to the '106 – seems to me the "kite" maneuver would give the guy behind me time to track me and hose off a missile, or dump a bunch of rounds up my tailpipe. And how the hell did that joker get behind me in the first place |
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Mar 31, 2004 19:56:43 GMT 9
And how the hell did that joker get behind me in the first place I was wondering the same thing as I read that... just couldn't happen, right? |
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Post by Jim on Apr 1, 2004 14:57:50 GMT 9
See, I told you the Col's response would be interesting
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