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Post by Jim on Feb 7, 2013 6:24:22 GMT 9
what to hell??? I posted an attach't here, hit space bar and it dispppe $hit, can't spell anymore either. "Edit attachments" is now showing.. clicked on it and it came back... To view after it enlarges click on it again and it will get big so you can read the print
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Post by Tom Dlugosh on Feb 8, 2013 3:08:44 GMT 9
Jim,
Do you know when that took place? I don't recognize the pilots names.
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Post by pat perry on Feb 8, 2013 3:19:10 GMT 9
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Post by Jim on Feb 8, 2013 9:15:47 GMT 9
Jim, Do you know when that took place? I don't recognize the pilots names. Tom, this had to be late 1960 or sometime before winter of '61- no snow... Jim
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Post by Tom Dlugosh on Feb 9, 2013 3:02:09 GMT 9
Way before my time.
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Feb 9, 2013 9:23:29 GMT 9
I'm certain it's not WT 65, because as I have noted in one of my photos in my William Tell Photo Galleries for 65 www.f-106deltadart.com/williamtell_1965.htm none of the WT65 participants aircraft had the fuselage numbers. And there is a photo of 27th birds at WT65 in the gallery without the fuselage numbers. What other years did the 27th participate in WT?
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sandyplanes47
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Post by sandyplanes47 on Mar 18, 2013 14:08:12 GMT 9
This was way before my time with the 27th, because we didn't have fuselage numbers in 1971. Along the lines of William Tell, I am looking at a copy of my travel voucher, (yes, I still have almost 95% of my paperwork) For the 83rd FIS dated 12 Nov. 1971. The dates of travel are from 23 Oct. 71 to 3 Nov.71. for Travel order T-336 for Project 71-13 William Tell. Depart Loring AFB 1330,23 Oct.71 ,arrrive Tyndall AFB, 1845, 23 Oct. 71 ( we flew down on a C-119). Departed Tyndall AFB 0750 3 Nov.71. Arrived Griffith AFB 1415, 3 Nov. 71. Departed Griffith AFB 1515 3Nov.. Arrived Loring AFB 1800 3 Nov. 71..I personally watched a mission of the 83rd FIS in the Ops Center, and saw one of our acft. shoot down its target. I also watched 3 of our pilots get the "Champagne Shower" after landing, and their Crew Chiefs stencil a shillouete of a BOMARC on the nose of their acft. I'm not sure if we had anymore hits, but we all felt very proud of ourselves. I would like Admin. to look into this, because there is nothing about William Tell 71 on the site, but I know I was there, and I know what I saw. I can also provide a copy of my travel voucher if needed.
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Post by Jim on Mar 18, 2013 15:49:26 GMT 9
I'm certain it's not WT 65, because as I have noted in one of my photos in my William Tell Photo Galleries for 65 www.f-106deltadart.com/williamtell_1965.htm none of the WT65 participants aircraft had the fuselage numbers. And there is a photo of 27th birds at WT65 in the gallery without the fuselage numbers. What other years did the 27th participate in WT? Wasn't William Tell, it was aircrew and aircraft certification.. Sorry took so long to answer.. The Old Sarge
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Post by oswald on Mar 18, 2013 20:53:14 GMT 9
Jim, What year did the numbers get taken off the fusilage?
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Post by Mark O on Mar 18, 2013 22:24:41 GMT 9
Jim, What year did the numbers get taken off the fusilage? From Joe Baugher...
"The system was in wide use throughout the 1950s, but was gradually phased out during the 1960s. The January 1965 edition of Technical Order 1-1-4 dropped all mention of any buzz number requirement, and these numbers started getting painted over and were largely gone by the middle of 1965."
For a good read on serial numbers check out Joe Buagher's web page here. (Scroll down to the section titled "Buzz Numbers.")
www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html
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Post by Mark O on Mar 19, 2013 5:30:55 GMT 9
This was way before my time with the 27th, because we didn't have fuselage numbers in 1971. Along the lines of William Tell, I am looking at a copy of my travel voucher, (yes, I still have almost 95% of my paperwork) For the 83rd FIS dated 12 Nov. 1971. The dates of travel are from 23 Oct. 71 to 3 Nov.71. for Travel order T-336 for Project 71-13 William Tell. Depart Loring AFB 1330,23 Oct.71 ,arrrive Tyndall AFB, 1845, 23 Oct. 71 ( we flew down on a C-119). Departed Tyndall AFB 0750 3 Nov.71. Arrived Griffith AFB 1415, 3 Nov. 71. Departed Griffith AFB 1515 3Nov.. Arrived Loring AFB 1800 3 Nov. 71..I personally watched a mission of the 83rd FIS in the Ops Center, and saw one of our acft. shoot down its target. I also watched 3 of our pilots get the "Champagne Shower" after landing, and their Crew Chiefs stencil a shillouete of a BOMARC on the nose of their acft. I'm not sure if we had anymore hits, but we all felt very proud of ourselves. I would like Admin. to look into this, because there is nothing about William Tell 71 on the site, but I know I was there, and I know what I saw. I can also provide a copy of my travel voucher if needed. (This is going to come across as sounding like me calling you a liar no matter how I put it. Please understand that is NOT the case, so here goes anyway...)I'm no expert, but I am confident there was not a William Tell Meet in 1971 involving several squadrons in the tradional sense of the well-known competition. There would be a BUNCH of references, including a patch, if there was. I know of none. I know your orders say "William Tell", and it is clear that you were there for an exercise -- which no one doubts -- but what is "Project 71-13"? Therein lies the clue. As Jim wrote, there were plenty of exercises at Tyndall to keep folks busy, but by that time the official William Tell competition was held only on even years driven in no small part by the five year skip of the event due to demands placed on the USAF in Vietnam. Why they put "William Tell" on the orders is a mystery, but if I had to guess whatever exercise y'all went to at Tyndall was the 13th held that year, or fiscal year. Did they just refer to these exercises as William Tell in some abstract way since they obviously involved gunnery? (Yes, "gunnery" includes "missilery.") Very interesting that they used that term.
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Norm Weiderhaft
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Post by Norm Weiderhaft on Mar 20, 2013 12:42:34 GMT 9
I was at Loring from July 1969 till June 1972. We went to Tyndall late August or early September 1971. Not sure of exact dates, but were there over Labor Day weekend. I'm not sure how many "kills" were recorded, but I think it was "maybe" (3) while we there. This was first time any six had shot down a Minuteman missile, so there was a huge party on flightline, including a horse tank full of beer. Since this was a first, we were invited back to Tyndall to try again in November. I'm pretty sure (memory isn't what it used to be) we were able to "kill" more missiles. Shortly after that I believe other squadrons began scoring hits too, after talking to our guys that "cheated" the MA-1 system to make this happen. We had some very sharp people that figured out how to make it happen. Two of the main brains were Larry Lockhart & Dale Vandenboom. I worked day shift while there along with the other partiers so we could go to Fort Walton Beach at night. We had to hitch hike and one night stayed too late & had trouble getting a ride. Walked miles that night. Got back to base just in time to go to work. Some of us slept under the trailer we worked out of most of the day. Any else on here that was on these trips and remember better than me??
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Post by oswald on Mar 21, 2013 2:13:34 GMT 9
I saw my first 106 in Jan.67 so I was not aware of when the buz numbers were taken off but I didn't see them while I worked them. thanks Mark O.
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 21, 2013 3:52:16 GMT 9
I was in MA-1 from 1963-1971. In Jan 1971 I started Flight Simulation School at Chanute AFB IL. One of my classmates was TSgt Dale Vandenboom. So Dale couldn't have been at WT 1971. He was a very sharp guy in electronics and we had fun Proficiency Advancing the school. I was kept as Instructor for 3 years, but Dale went into Simulation. I believe he went to Castle AFB.
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Post by Norm Weiderhaft on Mar 21, 2013 4:23:47 GMT 9
I had forgetten that Tsgt. Vandenboom had left Loring. I should have remembered that since I went to Chanute to visit him while I was on leave in Indiana. He was in on setting up the MA-1 system for Tyndall before he left. They had been preparing for a long time. Do you have any idea where Dale is now? Also, did you know A Tsgt. Townsend that went to Chanute about the time?
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 21, 2013 11:28:52 GMT 9
I haven't heard from Dale in ages. He called me several times before I left Chanute for RAF Upper Heyford, but have lost track of him since then. "Only the nose knows". His favorite saying back then. Dale had a large nose....
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Post by tmbak on Apr 2, 2013 12:12:51 GMT 9
The deployment to Tyndall in 1971 was to shoot down the BOMARC and not a William Tell. The first pilot to successfully hit the BOMARC was Gary Walters. This was several years ago so my figures might not be right on but to the best I can remember we had the engines trimmed to the max so that the aircraft could maintain 1.7 Mach in the climb from 30,000 to 60,000. The BOMARC was at 80,000 feet coming down range at Mach 3 so the closure rate was somewhere around Mach 5. There would be a flight of four F-106's on each mission. Two aircraft carried radar missiles and two had IR missiles. The reason for this was to make sure the number two guy on the target would not lock on to the first guy when he broke off from his run. I do have some pictures of the deployment somewhere in my stuff. I'll see if I can find them and send them to somebody to post on the site as I don't have a clue on how to do it. One other thing that was interesting about this mission was there were F-4's that were also trying to shoot at the BOMARC. They were launched from Eglin but they could not hang when it came to maintain their speed in the climb and they could not get to the altitude to get a good shot. Once again the Dart was the best!!
Tom Baker
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Post by MOW on Apr 2, 2013 19:08:26 GMT 9
The deployment to Tyndall in 1971 was to shoot down the BOMARC and not a William Tell. The first pilot to successfully hit the BOMARC was Gary Walters. This was several years ago so my figures might not be right on but to the best I can remember we had the engines trimmed to the max so that the aircraft could maintain 1.7 Mach in the climb from 30,000 to 60,000. The BOMARC was at 80,000 feet coming down range at Mach 3 so the closure rate was somewhere around Mach 5. There would be a flight of four F-106's on each mission. Two aircraft carried radar missiles and two had IR missiles. The reason for this was to make sure the number two guy on the target would not lock on to the first guy when he broke off from his run. I do have some pictures of the deployment somewhere in my stuff. I'll see if I can find them and send them to somebody to post on the site as I don't have a clue on how to do it. One other thing that was interesting about this mission was there were F-4's that were also trying to shoot at the BOMARC. They were launched from Eglin but they could not hang when it came to maintain their speed in the climb and they could not get to the altitude to get a good shot. Once again the Dart was the best!! Tom Baker Tom, please email me any photos you find at mcgeepj2@hotmail.com
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Post by Jim on Oct 10, 2013 6:38:25 GMT 9
This from Capt Brownshoes aka Roger D'entremont, a six driver from the 27th FIS at Loring early 60s.... Will attach photos he sent Tuesday, October 08, 2013 Hi Jim, Thought you might like a few photos of our old stomping grounds. Last weekend Noreen and I made a nostalgic visit to Loring AFB. The Base is owned by the city of Limestone and has a development center, which tries to lure someone to make use of the area. Just about everything has been torn down. There are no more fences, except around the Humvee area, where they are rebuilding Humvees for the Army. I was able to drive unobstructed everywhere on the base, including the runway, which is used for drag racing at times. There is a small vocational collage or school located in the middle of the former base. It has about 10 modern buildings for classes and dorms. I am told that about 600 people have jobs on the base. Some are rebuilding Humvees at the location of the former 27th flight line metal maintenance hangers. (ready barns) Others work at the rebuilt base hospital, which is now a records center. When we were there, Loring was the biggest town north of Bangor, with about 16,000 people. When the base close in 1996, I’m told that 20,000 locals also left the area. We stayed at a Hampton Inn in Presque Isle. The hotel is located just outside the downtown area and is next to a mall, which has a Sears, Penny’s, and Home Depot. There are about 12,000 people in Presque Isle, which is the best of the surviving towns in the area. It was kind of strange to revisit what I remember as a fully operation Air Base loaded with people and many buildings. It is now a ghost town reminder of the cold war. Whoops, photos exceed 1 MB each base chapel, SAC Arch hangar, and where base housing use to be
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Post by Jim on Oct 10, 2013 7:23:19 GMT 9
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