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Post by Jim on Mar 13, 2019 2:54:15 GMT 9
Just another story if a typical American boy... No big deal .  |
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Post by Gene on Mar 13, 2019 4:24:42 GMT 9
I was thinking about ww2...and in a way being sarcastic... I was thinking of the many who volunteered to fight in ww2...as for police and fire people... I think their paychecks are a big influence...
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 13, 2019 10:59:42 GMT 9
Jim, I agree with your description of Hero and would like to share a few days from my career.
Amn Bill Pitsenbarger, MOH was a local to WPAFB. His heroic actions to save so many men at the loss of his own that day was an example for all Para-rescue men. The WPAFB dining Hall is named after him. I was part of the crowd of people at USAF Museum in Dec 2000 when he was awarded the MOH by SAF. His father received the award.
Sgt John Levitow MOH was a gunner on USAF Gunship in VN. He was wounded when flare went off in cabin and even though he was wounded, he dragged a hot flare to back of aircraft and threw it out before it fully engulfed the Gunship.
I met John Levitow during my time at USAF Senior Academy at Gunter AB AL. Our's was the 10th year anniversary class to graduate in 1984. We dedicated a AC-47 gunship in front of main building at Gunter. Our Class collected and paid to have a full set of guns demilitarized and put on display. We located and arranged to have John come to Gunter and meet with us for our last week there. He talked at length with us about his AF tour, the actions which led to his award of MOH and how he turned against everything the USAF stood for. He also went through some very heavy drinking following his award of MOH and discharge from USAF. But he had gotten his life together and was pro-USAF when we had him as our guest. It was an Honor to have worked with him that week. I was one of 4-5 "Chiefs (sel) who hosted him that week. John passed away back in 2000.
And one closer to the F-106 crowd was Major Bernard "Bernie" Fisher. He was flying an A1E when his wing man was shot down in VN. He landed his plane and dragged his wing man into his plane and took off, saving his wing man. I was honored to have worked with Maj Fisher at Tyndall when he returned from VietNam and re-qualified in the Six. Over a few beers at a Wing BBQ he talked to us about his actions that day. He referred to it as worst decision of his life, but also the most rewarding. I was working in Aircrew Debriefing when he was at Tyndall and had opportunity to shoot the chit with him many times. He was Just a good ole boy. He past away (RIP) back a few years ago.
Lorin
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Post by Jim on May 16, 2019 0:19:12 GMT 9
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Post by Jim on May 17, 2019 2:25:29 GMT 9
HOT FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seymour Johnson F-15s, Airmen Demonstrate New Expeditionary Concept
F-15Es and airmen from Seymour Johnson AFB, N.C., recently proved a new type of deployment for the Air Force, with a small team of jets and multifunctional airmen standing up a small operating location. Three teams of 30 airmen stood up an operating airfield at Kinston Regional Jetport, N.C., last week and flew operations simulating an austere environment. The concept, called the Combat Support Wing, was developed by AFIMSC in its 2017 conference and last week’s event was the final event of the rollout. Read the full story by Brian Everstine.[/font][/font]
From: JimG <irishaf1952@q.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 11:16 AM
To: A FOINE IRISH LAD; Allan John Kelly; CAPT. BROWNSHOES; COL. S
Subject: Back in the day
Doesn't anyone speak plain, understandable English anymore? WTF is wrong with saying "starting up", "started up", and WTF is a "multifunctional" airman? New type of deployment? "simulating an austere environment" I disagree!! 1954, the 21st Fighter Bomber Wing deployed from George AFB with the 416th FBS and the 531st FBS to North Field (WW2 auxiliary field ) and laid over 5,000 ft of PSP (perforated steel planking) of runway. My squadron, the 72nd FBS deployed to Shaw AFB and we were the aggressor air force. North Field was really austere!!!!! Slit trench latrines, blister bags for water supply, army style mess kits, GI cooks cooking over open fires, everything was in tents.... .Back in the day (I hate that saying when spoken by some pissy-assed kid) we aircraft mechanics, or crew chiefs, were multifunctional without even knowing it!!!!! I maintained my own .50 cal. Browning machine guns, linked my own ammo, dipped them in paint for target scoring, bore sighted my own guns with 500 rounds fired, and finished the day cleaning the guns and the gun bays These guys didn't get a real shower for 30 days, at Shaw? Hell, we went into Sumter almost every night, showered every day, at least 2 hot meals served in the old fashioned steel trays. I guess it is new; IF YOU CHANGE THE F'G name .... Now I know I am just an old pissed off Sarge that lived the "back in the day"..
Col S. Reply:
These are probably programs developed from "staff reports" created during SOS (Squadron Officers School) and Staff College, by officers who never knew what had been in the past, and were looking for something – anything – to submit for credit.
"Leaders" who had never followed military history were probably amazed that such obvious things were not part of the service(s), and adopted old programs renamed to demonstrate originality.
The more things change, the more they remain the same. MRoss
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Post by LBer1568 on May 17, 2019 2:45:13 GMT 9
I went to SJ AFB back in 1990's to do Tech Order V and V for USAF. I was civilian contractor then. SJ had just converted from separate Squadrons to a new concept...the Combat Support Wing (also called Expeditionary Wing). It consisted of F-15 fighters, KC-10 tankers, C-5 and C-141 cargo haulers and A-10's were added about 6 months later. All maintenance and direct support folks were in same Squadrons and that made TDY a simple thing with multiple types of Aircraft needed to support a Tactical deployment.
They also deployed to bare base locations and set up operations. They also had a Red Horse Team as part of support elements.
So what's the old saying Jim...What goes around comes around. And without a well documented History, good and bad things are repeated and treated as "new".
I remember first time I was in operational unit, the 539th FIS at McGuire. That was a MATS base (Military Airlift Transport Service) with a SAC EC-121 Warning Star Squadron, a BOMARC Missile Squadron, a F-106 Fighter Squadron, 21st AD and a SAGE Center.
The big hanger in MATS was decorated with huge letters PRIDE...Professional Responsibility In Daily Endeavors. That was my first knowledge about QA, QC, etc. That concept is still being recreated about every 10 years as something new to prevent accidents and make things safer.
Things never change but change is just around the corner.
Lorin
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Post by pat perry on May 17, 2019 12:15:51 GMT 9
Got a 404 page error with this link. Pat P. |
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Post by Jim on May 18, 2019 0:10:29 GMT 9
Got a 404 page error with this link. Pat P. One More Thing … Gen. Hap Arnold Led Army Air Forces in WWII. You Might Be Surprised by What He Did as a Major Frustrated by interservice rivalries in which Army aviation always seemed to come up short, Arnold wrote a series of six books in the mid-1920s intended to highlight the value of military aviation and promote flying to a young audience. Aviation History Magazine via Air Force Times www.historynet.com/the-writer-side-of-hap-arnold.htm |
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Post by Gene on May 18, 2019 4:47:37 GMT 9
read many things about Hap... all very interesting
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Post by Gene on May 18, 2019 5:09:14 GMT 9
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Post by Jim on Apr 20, 2020 23:55:19 GMT 9
493........
Air Combat Annals
By: Thomas McKelvey Cleaver
MOHAWK SHOOTS DOWN MIG!
“There is a long-time unconfirmed rumor that a Grumman Mohawk shot down a MiG-17 in Vietnam.” Nothing more came of it until one day in the fall of 2007 when I opened my e-mail to find one with the header “Mohawk shoot down of MiG-17,” sent by someone named Ken Lee. I thought at first it was a comment from a fellow meddler about the review (I get a lot of those), but I opened it and read the opening line: “I’m the guy who shot down the MiG-17,” I knew I had found the Grail.
Due to inter-service politics at the time, the U.S. Army had no interest at all in having anyone know that an army pilot had committed the unthinkable act of poaching a MiG from the Air Force. And so, for forty years, the story remained untold. But after “Mohawk Versus MiG” appeared in Flight Journal in 2008, the Army Aviation Museum at Fort Rucker, Alabama, admitted that, yes, Ken Lee had indeed shot down a MiG-17 in 1968. The Gods had spoken. So here is Ken’s story.
Ken Lee: Mohawk Versus MiG
From 2,000 feet above the triple-canopy jungle, the Ashau Valley was deceptive in the early morning light through the clouds to the east. Twenty-two miles long and less than six miles from Laos, Ashau was one of the two strongholds for the North Vietnamese Army in South Vietnam, the other being the U Minh Forest north of Saigon. Known to the North Vietnamese as Base Area 611, it was Charlie’s personal territory, a major hub on the Ho Chi Minh Trail for the infiltration of personnel and supplies into Thua Thien Providence and northern I Corps; the launch point for the Tet Offensive against the Marines at Khe Sanh and the ancient imperial capitol of Hue.
On that clear morning in mid-February 1968, the pilots of the two Grumman OV-1A Mohawks flew in loose trail over the valley as they headed toward the Laotian end of the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The airmen could easily look through the scattered cumulus clouds and see the three abandoned U.S. airfields along the middle of the valley floor and the deserted Special Forces camp that had been overrun in March 1966. United States forces had been pushed out of Ashau back then and there were no plans as yet for a return.
Flying lead was Captain Ken Lee, a veteran pilot, considered one of the most experienced Mohawk drivers in the 131st Aviation Company; he had first flown Mohawks with the 73rd Aviation Company from December 1964 to November 1965, when the 73rd “wrote the book” for Mohawk operations in Vietnam. Captain Lee was thoroughly familiar with this particular piece of geography. He had taken hits regularly while over flying the Ashau as he “threaded the needle” through the pass at the eastern end of the valley that led to the Laotian plains beyond.
The two pilots kept at their altitude. They knew that beneath the riot of green below were more than six thousand permanent troops, their installations ringed by one of the most sophisticated complexes of interlocked antiaircraft batteries for be found south of the 17th Parallel. The bug-headed OV-1 Mohawk, with its distinctive triple tail, was both unmistakable and feared by the North Vietnamese, who had learned the hard way just how easy it was to be discovered beneath the jungle canopy by the Mohawk’s side-looking radar and infrared detection gear. If luck wasn’t riding with them and they were forced down, the fliers could expect to encounter leech-infested streams, stony cliffs, and 60-degree hills, all covered with jungle so dense that a man couldn’t see more than a few feet in any direction, crisscrossed by meager animal trails covered with rotted tree roots, populated by one hundred forty varieties of poisonous snakes and the most unusual insects in the world-all that if the NVA didn’t find you first.
“All of a sudden, I felt the airplane taking hits,” Lee recalls, “but it felt different from before, not like the usual ground fire. I didn’t know why, so I commenced a clearing turn to the right, but then my wingman, who was maybe half a mile behind me in trail, shouted ‘You got a MiG behind you!’”
“I immediately leveled my wings, just as a silver, swept-wing airplane dove past on my left, about sixty feet away, at around 275 knots. My first thought was it must be an Australian F-86 Sabre. They were based in Thailand, but then I saw the red star on the tail and I knew I was in serious trouble.”
The MiG-17, for that is what it was, was already pulling out of its dive two hundred feet below Lee and had turned back for more. “I was a sitting duck. With our full load of ordinance and extra fuel, I was so heavy I’d stall at about 165 knots in a 30-degree bank, so I sure couldn’t dogfight him.” Lee ordered his wingman to break left and fly over the mountain range into a cloud bank. There was no point in both Mohawks being shot down that day.
The MiG pilot had made a major error in slowing down to execute his attack. While the OV-1A may have looked more like a dragonfly than an airplane, it was a thoroughly competent warplane. More than half of the wingspan was within the wash of the big, reversible pitch propellers, and the wing incorporated a pair of hydraulically operated auxiliary ailerons that worked only when the flops were down, for better low-speed control. It was fully aerobatic, rated at plus-5 Gs and minus-1.5Gs, and at least one Mohawk had reportedly pulled 7Gs without suffering structural damage. A British test pilot who flew one when RAF had considered operating them had compared its low-level performance favorably with the Gloster Meteor in terms of acceleration and power available.
Lee’s immediate thought was that the best defense was a good offense. The OV-1A was different from all other Army fixed-wing aircraft in that it could carry a pod filled with twenty-four 2.75 inch rockets and a .50-caliber machine gun pod beneath each wing, a load Lee was carrying that morning. “I fired thirty-eight rockets in two salvoes and got what looked like four hits on the MiG. I then put about a hundred rounds of .50-cal into him. I could see the tracers going into the fuselage. When I hit his engine that killed his power.”
The MiG was climbing at about a thousand feet per minute when Lee opened fire. “His right wing dropped when he got hit, and he went into a cloud bank. I pulled out of the clouds to the right and saw him come out about three to five seconds later. His right wing was low and his nose pitched over. There were flickers of red flame, then white smoke, then black smoke, and then orange flames.”
The MiG went around one of the mountains ringing the Ashau and turned into what Lee knew was a blind valley. “He was so low, he could not have gotten out of that valley before impacting the hillside. The clouds were so dense, so I didn’t follow him in there.”
With the MiG gone, Lee and his wingman resumed their mission into Laos. On the way back to their base, they reported the attack to the C-130 control ship “Hillsboro.”
The two Mohawks landed back at their home base at Phu Bai, home of the 131st Aviation Company. “I didn’t get scared from the fight till I climbed out and saw the bullet holes in the e tail and the after fuselage, but the unit commanders were also worried that maybe it had been an Aussie Saber. Plus nobody could explain how a MiG could be down over South Vietnam when they had never come that far south before. The doubt continued for days.”
One accusation made was that the two pilots, neither of whom were trained for combat, might be telling this story to cover themselves from the repercussions of being involved in a second friendly fire incident. “Three weeks earlier, my wingman was accused of hitting my airplane when he made a strafling run up in Ashau,” Lee explained. The doubts came to an end with the production of incontrovertible evidence that an air battle had indeed happened. “My crew chief measured those thirty-nine holes in my rear section, and found that all the bullet had struck as about a 45-degree angle, which would mean my wingman would have been diving on me to do damage. And then there was the fact that the holes were bigger than .50-cal. They were about 20mm. After my chief reported that, they started taking my story more seriously.
For the U.S. Army, Lee’s Victory” could turn into a major defeat if the event became widely known. As Lee explained, “The army was terrified that the air force would force them to either disarm the Mohawks or even turn them over to the air force.
This fear of the air force has dogged the Mohawk for fourteen years, ever since the army decided in 1954 to create the first designed-for-the-purpose “battlefield reconnaissance” aircraft since the North American O-47 had flown in 1937. To understand this problem, a bit of background history is required. The Grumman OV-1 Mohawk was firmly in the tradition of what was called “corps reconnaissance” in the First World War, and army co-operation” in the Second World War, in that it was a purpose built aircraft created to work with the ground forces. Some of the more famous of this type or airplane are the D.H.4 and Bristol fighter of the First World War and Westlander Lysander and Fieseler Storch of the Second World War.
The OV-1 was the product of a requirement put forth in 1954 to develop a more robust and capable design than the then-operational Cessna L-19 Bird Dog. Given the “great compromise” made in 1948, when the air force was broken off from the army and given control of all armed fixed-winged aircraft, the very design of the OV-1, a light weight two-seat field reconnaissance aircraft powered by twin turboprops, capable of short takeoff and landing from small, unprepared strips-set off warning bells that the army was trying to encroach the air force mission. The winning design was the Grumman Model 134. Following the army tradition of naming its aircraft after Indian Tribes, the Grumman Model 134 was first named the Montauk, which was later changed to the Mohawk.
What was by then known as the OV-1 achieved initial operational capability with the U.S. Seventh Army in Germany in 1961, just in time for involvement in the Berlin Crisis. The main task of this initial version was photo-reconnaissance, carrying a KA-60 high resolution camera with night capability mounted in the fuselage.
In 1963, in anticipation of their service in Southeast Asia, fifty-four OV-1As were returned to the factory for the addition of six underwing pylons capable of carrying fuel tanks, 500 pound bombs, or pods loaded with 2.75-inch rockets or 5-inch Zuni missiles. With this modification, the aircraft became the JOV-1A. Six were sent to South Vietnam for combat-service evaluation with the 23rd Special Aviation Group, which became the 73rd Aviation Company in 1965. These JOV-1As were responsible for a major blow up between the army and air force in 1965, as ground commanders were calling the armed Mohawks for air support, which was supposed to be a job strictly reserved for the air force. The result was an agreement that the army fixed-wing aircraft would no longer carry “offensive armament.” While bureaucrats at “Versailles-on-the-Potomac” thought the argument was over, redesignated OV-1As continued to carry underwing armament throughout their active service in Southeast Asia. The army promised that the ordnance would only be used in “self-defense” when they came under fire from the ground. The Mohawks went about their business, and army aviators were ordered not to mention the missions to the Boys in Blue. While some might argue that Lee’s actions were in fact self-defense in response to being attacked, senior army aviation commanders didn’t see it that way. “When I came back with a probable MiG kill,” Lee explains, “there was just terrific fear that any publicity at all would wreck the mission. I was specifically ordered not to talk to anyone about any of it.” The army well knew that the air force had reserved destruction of airborne MiGs as its exclusive domain.
A few weeks later, Lee flew from Phu Bai to Ubon, Thailand, to deliver a target portfolio to Colonel Robin Olds, then commanding officer of the 8th Tacticle Fighter Wing. Olds had heard the rumors about a Mohawk shooting down a MiG, and he was interested to discover that Lee was the pilot involved. “He told me they knew the North Vietnamese Air Force had set up an airfield just north of the DMZ and planned to make air strikes on Khe Sanh during the siege there, so it was entirely plausible to him that there could be a MiG-17 all the way down over the Ashau Valley.
In May 1968, Lee flew another mission that stopped by Ubon. “This time, I was met by Robin Olds and Chappie James, and they ordered me to accompany them over to the officers’ club. When we got there, the two of them accompanied me around the room on a ‘MiG sweep’ that ended at the bar, where drinks were waiting. They told me a MiG had definitely been shot down under the circumstances I had described. When I asked how they knew, Olds said to me ‘We know things you guys don’t and will never find out.”
The celebration of his victory by Olds and James and the other fighter pilots of the 8th TFW would be the only recognition Ken Lee would ever receive as the only modern aviator to shoot down an enemy aircraft, and this article is the first time the story has been told in full.
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Post by LBer1568 on Apr 21, 2020 4:28:02 GMT 9
I have a good friend here that was a Recon/ground support pilot on a couple trips to VN. He was also a C-135 pilot having flown several types, the last being the VIP RC-135 at PACAF HQ. I asked him about his combat experience flying OV-10. He said he never encountered any enemy fighters but had good reason to believe that an Army guy did get lucky and down a MIG. That was years ago, so when I read your post it reminded me of the tale.
I just got some bad news as well. My oven is Dead in action. Glasstop burners works but oven doesn't. I had repairman out earlier and he called Frigidaire and they said no replacement control panel available anywhere and it hasn't been made since about 2008. So the guy that was here looked at custom installation and recommended someone to look at opening up space so that a standard range will fit in space. It will include cutting marble countertop as it is only 28 3/4 " wide so no normal range will fit. He will also have to cut cabinet space below drop in range and also cut the tile baseboard as well.
Probably looking a several hundred just to get space to accept new range. Just mowed yard. It is that time of year that have to cut about every 5 days. But it is beautiful out, almost 70 degrees and sunny.
I can't believe oil has dropped below dollar a barrel or less.
Lorin
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Bullhunter
Global Moderator 
318th FIS Jet Shop 1975-78
Currently: Offline
Posts: 7,445 
Location:
Joined: May 2005
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Post by Bullhunter on Apr 21, 2020 7:38:59 GMT 9
Lorin,,, I worked appliances for 10 years after I retired from the USAF. Did service manager and technician duties. Appliance manufactures usually make parts for about 10 years after their unit its the show floors. Whirlpool/Kitchen-Aid makes more parts for 12 to 15 years and longer. If you replace your range get a whirlpool. I suggest you measure your range space and then go to Homedepot, Lowes, and anyother big home appliance dealer in your area and see if they can find you a unit to fit. I'd stay away from glass top myself, but you have to make the woman of the house happy. Good luck. You know its always something that's a problem.
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Post by pat perry on Apr 21, 2020 22:22:13 GMT 9
Lorin,,, I worked appliances for 10 years after I retired from the USAF. Did service manager and technician duties. Appliance manufactures usually make parts for about 10 years after their unit its the show floors. Whirlpool/Kitchen-Aid makes more parts for 12 to 15 years and longer. If you replace your range get a whirlpool. I suggest you measure your range space and then go to Homedepot, Lowes, and anyother big home appliance dealer in your area and see if they can find you a unit to fit. I'd stay away from glass top myself, but you have to make the woman of the house happy. Good luck. You know its always something that's a problem.
Lorin, Try this webpage at Nebraska Furniture Mart. www.nfm.com/wall-ovensOr Best Buy. www.bestbuy.com/site/home-appliances/ranges-ovens-stoves/abcat0904000.c?id=abcat0904000Pat P. |
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Post by Jim on Apr 26, 2020 1:29:44 GMT 9
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Post by Jim on May 19, 2020 10:07:07 GMT 9
435........ Strange, these women paid for funerals, body transportation and a flag when one of theirs was killed www.arlingtoncemetery.net/emmagid.htm
CELESTIAL FLIGHT:
She is not dead --
But only flying higher,
Higher than she's flown before,
And earthly limitations
Will hinder her no more.
There is no service ceiling.
Or any fuel range,
And there is no anoxia,
Or need for engine change.
Thank God that now her flight can be
To heights her eyes had scanned,
Where she can race with comets,
And buzz the rainbow's span.
For she is universal
Like courage, love and hope,
And all free, sweet emotions
Of vast and godly scope.
And understand a pilot's Fate
Is not the thing she fears,
But rather sadness left behind,
Your heartbreak and your tears.
So all you loved ones, dry your eyes,
Yes, it is wrong that you should grieve
For she would love your courage more,
And she would want you to believe
She is not dead.
For you should have known
That she is flying higher,
Higher than she's ever flown.
by Elizabeth MacKethan Magid, WASP 44-W-2
copyright 1979
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Post by Jim on Jun 7, 2020 1:21:19 GMT 9
Today, 75 years ago, the PA system in my school came on and announced that the US had invaded France at a place called Normandy... I was in the 5th grade, and remember a prayer was recited over the PA.. The rest of the school day was spent on learning about Normandy. Recycling wasn't a word- it was something we did, I can remember peeling the aluminum foil off of the cigarette packages and the wrapper from a stick of gum, cutting the bottom off the tin cans and putting the top and bottom inside the can and flattening it.. My dad had made something that you stepped on to flatten it. And writing V Mail letters to 3 uncles who went ashore that day  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-mailwww.chonday.com/40489/when-two-b17s-flew-piggyback/
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Post by LBer1568 on Jun 10, 2020 2:57:27 GMT 9
For the last two days electric company has been just over our fence and in neighbors yard replacing electric pole. I serves three homes next door. They took a day to tear down neighbors gate and bringing in a portable wench unit that used drill to dig hole, used as a lift to put new pole in place and as man lift box so electrician could swap cables from pole to new pole. Their machine was diesel powered and not terribly noisy. They are loading up now, but left about 1/3 of old pole in ground. It has an old Cable TV wires left on old pole, so Spectrum will likely come out and reposition cable and then someone will have to remove old pole. Our cable was swapped to new pole so I don't know relationship between companies. I know cable company pays a small fee to run their cables on existing poles of electric company.
Man I can watch professionals all day without working up a sweat. lol
It is not only very hot today, but we have air quality warning for pollution. Lots of trees still putting out pollen.
I finally know of someone with virus. Both of my daughters in law were tested yesterday/today since a co-worker at each of their work places tested positive. So I will limit my exposure until they get results back. Our prayers are with them.
Lorin
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Post by Jim on Feb 23, 2021 10:09:14 GMT 9
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Post by Marvin Pine on Feb 23, 2021 14:49:43 GMT 9
Thank you Jim, fantastic art.
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