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Post by Diamondback on Jan 14, 2012 5:55:19 GMT 9
Can't seem to find a decal set with Boss Bird stripes for the 318th, so looks like I gotta put out a 911 to fellow members of the Dragons family for the 411. Any of you guys have exact details about 318th command stripes? I know the two shades of blue are same as the tail markings... am I correct that the darker blue is FS15042 or 15044? Also, what was the FS on the lighter blue, how wide were the stripes, and what are my "landmarks" on the bird to paint 'em? I have some limited reference over at ARC ( s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=240791&st=100 , "Diamondback Six" is me), but trying to use one model as a data source for another is more useful in "principle" than "precision." Thanks! EDIT with update: Found the blues--FS15102 light, FS15044 Insignia Blue dark. Now I just need positions, angles and widths... |
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Post by Diamondback on Jan 26, 2012 11:54:15 GMT 9
Update: Drendel's Century Series depicts 59-004 as from nose to tail 15044 Insignia Blue/15102 True Blue/17875 Gloss White. Did this continue with -0054 after 004's loss?
Still need the width of each stripe (preferably width in ground plane, not width perpendicular to stripe edge--my calculus is so rusty it's SCARY, and being a History major math was never really my strong point), the angle off vertical, and "landmarks" on the airframe and distances from them--top front looks close to the rear of the canopy frame, but I need the corresponding lower LE from the weps-bay door front.
I'm really thinking this thread should be expanded into a directory of all F-106 squadron stripes and their meanings... like how Capt. Patterson as Ops O for the 456th got a Six with Command Stripes.
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Jan 26, 2012 13:50:53 GMT 9
This help any? Attachments:
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Post by Diamondback on Jan 26, 2012 16:08:18 GMT 9
Looks like a scan of the profile of 004 in Drendel's book--thanks anyway, though. :yellow-beer Edit: I wanted a "Smile" smiley, not a "Laugh", trying to say it was appreciated. :  |
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sixfixer
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Post by sixfixer on Jan 28, 2012 0:57:48 GMT 9
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Post by Diamondback on Jan 28, 2012 15:54:40 GMT 9
Thanks, Ernie--while the ideal would be a Paint Shop instruction sheet or a top-view showing the "point" of the stripes' chevron, I may be able to make things work from what's here, my protractor and a few phone-calls to my old Calculus profs.
Were squadron markings like the stripes applied at the unit level, or did Depot apply 'em as part of any post-overhaul repaint?
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Post by pat perry on Jan 29, 2012 2:06:36 GMT 9
Thanks, Ernie--while the ideal would be a Paint Shop instruction sheet or a top-view showing the "point" of the stripes' chevron, I may be able to make things work from what's here, my protractor and a few phone-calls to my old Calculus profs. Were squadron markings like the stripes applied at the unit level, or did Depot apply 'em as part of any post-overhaul repaint? Diamondback, I worked in the 456th FIS paint shop in 66-67. When our F-106s went to depot for IRAN (inspect and repair as necessary), they were stripped and painted to look just as they did when Convair delivered them from the factory. Squadron unique decoration was applied when they came home. I doubt that command markings were ever detailed with a drawing and specs unless some squadrons did that themselves. I have seen the command stripes done at different angles and widths. Some came to a point on the top and bottom of the fuselage and some were contoured to maintain stripe width. Some stripes were angled to extend well over the canopy hinge area and some were actually behind the hinge area. In the early 60s the 456th had 1959 model Sixes and the stripe went well over the canopy hinge area. All of the 456th 1959 models were swapped out for 1957 models in the mid 60s and the squadron decoration changed with changes in Commanders and Air Division assignments - each had their own preferences for squadron unique markings. In 1967 Col. Jackson and I changed the 456th yellow tail markings when the squadron was reassigned to a different Air Division and the red-white-blue Air Division band was eliminated at the vert stab base. We also stopped using command stripes except for the COs aircraft. When we aquired the F-106 for Castle Air Museum, Ralph Robledo painted the stripes (picture below) which stopped right at the canopy hinge area which was correct for 1968. The next picture below shows the 1959 models from the early 60s where the stripes were well over the canopy hinge area during Col Price's command. I only bring this up because squadron markings were often changed by COs for a variety of reasons. And then there's also the variations caused by turnover in the paint shops and the lack of detailed drawings and dimensions in many cases. Good luck with your project! Pat P. 456th FIS F-106 at Castle Air Museum  Early 60s 456th paint scheme. Picture supplied by Eric Anonsen whose father Capt Chuck Anonsen took these pictures. |
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Post by LBer1568 on Jan 29, 2012 4:27:49 GMT 9
Were the stripes unique to an Air Division, Squadron? I was with 539th and I don't remember ever seeing one with the stripes. Tyndall was my last F-106 Assignment and I don't remember seeing the stripes there either. But Tyndall did have some unique paint schemes.
But I also don't remember 318th birds in Korea having teh stripes either. So was it a time frame item as well?
Lorin
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Post by Diamondback on Jan 29, 2012 6:20:15 GMT 9
My understanding is that they were only to mark commanders' aircraft--they may have come in with the TAC hostile takeover, though. (Sorry, between ADC and SAC, that's two groups--even if seemingly incompatible at first glance--of "my people" that the pukes in TAC command gave the shaft without benefit of lube.)
Pat P, can you shed any light on what all positions had stripes in the 456th before you and Col. Jackson simplified things? I know as noted above and decaled on the Monogram kit that in the early '60s they let the Operations Officer (in 1962 then-Capt. Patterson) have 'em...
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Post by pat perry on Jan 29, 2012 6:59:02 GMT 9
Were the stripes unique to an Air Division, Squadron? I was with 539th and I don't remember ever seeing one with the stripes. Tyndall was my last F-106 Assignment and I don't remember seeing the stripes there either. But Tyndall did have some unique paint schemes. But I also don't remember 318th birds in Korea having teh stripes either. So was it a time frame item as well? Lorin The red-white-blue stripes at the base of the 456th FIS vert stab had a 28th Air Division emblem on both sides of the stab. I was told those markings were 28th AD. Their patch was red-white-blue (azure) with a Griffin sitting on a wall. The 329th FIS at George AFB in 1965 had the same stripes on the lower vert stab on page 34 of "Colors & Markings" of the F-106 Delta Dart by Bert Kinsey see it here: www.f-106deltadart.com/air_division_28.htmThe command stripes around the 456th fuselages were 3 for CO, 2 for flight leader and I don't remember what 1 was for. As I recall we had only 3-4 birds with the stripes and the rest had none. They may have been used originally to designate flight leaders 1, 2 & 3 for visual reference in formations. That may account for why you never saw many of them at Tyndall. Each squadron made their own decision on whether to use them or not. In the same C&M book on page 34 a 49th FIS bird had 4 fuselage stripes. On page 37 there is a Montana Air Guard bird shown at William Tell with 3 black or dark blue fuselage stripes. On page 53 there is a B Model that was General Agan's personal aircraft - he was the CO of ADC. He had 4 fuselage stripes but they were so far aft that they were painted to look like they ran behind the intakes. The F-106 probably had more different and colorful markings than any other fighters I've ever seen. Great for the spirited egos but sometimes bad news for the paint shops. :rofl Pat P. |
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Post by MOW on Jan 29, 2012 8:37:08 GMT 9
My understanding is that they were only to mark commanders' aircraft--they may have come in with the TAC hostile takeover, though. (Sorry, between ADC and SAC, that's two groups--even if seemingly incompatible at first glance--of "my people" that the pukes in TAC command gave the shaft without benefit of lube.) Pat P, can you shed any light on what all positions had stripes in the 456th before you and Col. Jackson simplified things? I know as noted above and decaled on the Monogram kit that in the early '60s they let the Operations Officer (in 1962 then-Capt. Patterson) have 'em... The 87th used 1, 2 and 3 stripes prior to TAC. Here's a shot of 1976. It appears these stripes flow over the fuselage at the canopy hinge, not over the hinge.  |
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Post by Mark O on Jan 29, 2012 10:45:03 GMT 9
How about these stripes? Photo 16 Jan 71 by R. Leader of 57-0237 in 5th FIS Minot AFB ND markings at Andrews AFB MD. From Marty Isham Collection. There are decals out for this aircraft in these markings. Eagle Strike Productions "Delta Dart (F-106), The Six, Part 4." (Set # 48219.) I don't know if they are still in production, so I'm glad I have my set. This set also includes markings for the 460th FIS with 1972-era, Grand Forks AFB markings. The instructions even give Erv's site as a reference! (I'll scan them later.)  Found on Erv's site with the info copied here. I just wanted to post the photo, but this is Erv's link. www.convairf-106deltadart.com/57023703Large.html |
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Post by Diamondback on Jan 29, 2012 10:57:57 GMT 9
Hmmm... sounds like cataloging markings of the entire force over time could keep a full-time researcher busy for several years--the C&M volume was brief by necessity, but barely scratched the surface.
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Post by Mark O on Jan 29, 2012 11:04:48 GMT 9
The red-white-blue stripes at the base of the 456th FIS vert stab had a 28th Air Division emblem on both sides of the stab. I was told those markings were 28th AD. Their patch was red-white-blue (azure) with a Griffin sitting on a wall. The 329th FIS at George AFB in 1965 had the same stripes on the lower vert stab on page 34 of "Colors & Markings" of the F-106 Delta Dart by Bert Kinsey see it here: www.f-106deltadart.com/air_division_28.htmPat P. I have some 1/72 scale, F-101B Voodoo decals that include several squadrons including the 84th FIS from their 101 days. They have the 28th AD markings, but have the 28th AD patch on the port side (incorrectly listed as the "squadron badge") and the ADC patch on the starboard side. They are painted on the vertical stab in the same relative position as the markings on the F-106. Scan to follow, but here's a shot of the F-101B on display at Castle. It has the RWB stripes, but I don't see the 28th AD insignia. It is also interesting to note the location of the "command stripes" on this aircraft. (This is from the MOW's F-101 Voodoo site - our sister site!) www.f-101voodoo.com/index.php/F-101B/F-101B57-0412-84thFIS |
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Post by Mark O on Jan 29, 2012 11:10:11 GMT 9
Hmmm... sounds like cataloging markings of the entire force over time could keep a full-time researcher busy for several years--the C&M volume was brief by necessity, but barely scratched the surface. Agreed. To be honest dude, I think you're over thinking this. Since it's for a model (I'm guessing) just "eyeball" it. If the paint police want to criticize you for it, that's their problem. You have the colors right, you have the right attitude about it, and I'm sure it will look fantastic! No calculus required! BTW, great idea for a specific thread to post pictures of command stripes! As you see, I've been digging some up myself! Mark O |
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Post by MOW on Jan 29, 2012 11:38:03 GMT 9
Yup sounds like a new section needed: ACFT Markings & Insignias or something like that. Ill work on it.
Sent from my HTC_X515E using ProBoards
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Post by Mark O on Jan 29, 2012 11:53:14 GMT 9
I don't think these count as "command stripes" per se, but they are stripes nonetheless!  Since I mentioned an 84th FIS F-101, let's go even further back, and look at the command stripes on an 84th Scorpion! Since the photos I've seen of F-89s in 84th markings are few-and-far-between, my question is this. Were these really command stripes, or did all aircraft in the squadron have these markings? I know we have some F-89 guys here, so I'd love to find out!  |
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Post by MOW on Jan 29, 2012 12:54:15 GMT 9
Posts like this now have their own section under ACFT Markings, Insignias and Paint where this post has been moved to.
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Post by sixfixer on Jan 29, 2012 19:08:53 GMT 9
Yes - Mark is correct - with a little guessing, you should be ok ! I will say that, unlike the 87th & 456th birds, all of the command stripes on the 318th Sixes do not go up to the canopy frame there is a little space between the rear of the frame and the beginning of the stripe. I'm posting another picture of a 318th bird with command stripes - this one the Op Officers bird (057) from the same period as -004. Even though their is one less stripe - I would say short of a slight angle difference -004's command stripe is similar. In this picture you can clearly see that the stripe is aft of the canopy frame. The pictures of -004 from CMSGT Timothy Shannon's collection should get you pretty close for -004 or -054. Attachments:
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Post by LBer1568 on Jan 30, 2012 0:25:41 GMT 9
On a closly related paint issue. Anyone remember when we painted the six with the light blue paint? It was supposed to help them in visual recognition, lower visual identification. We had several 539th birds in the light blue scheme. If I remember right it was right before they went to "Red Flag" to fly Air to Air against those fabled F-4 turds.
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