bobdavis
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 2, 2012 3:15:06 GMT 9
I'd like to relate an interesting problem on a F106A at Langley somewhere around the 1974-75 time frame. I was a young AIC in the Electric shop and we had a recurring problem with one bird where the Pilots reported the nose gear unable to retract fully.
Bear in mind that 37 years have gone by, but it was a learning experience I carried forward.
Each time the plane would land with the writeup similar to "Nose gear retract lite inop after retract". We would put it on jacks and cycle the gear time after time with no problem noted.
After the 2nd or 3rd CND, our resident 106 maintenance expert, a civilian named Pete (last name?) was called in to ramrod the effort to find the problem. He was a terrific guy everyone liked him and he was super sharp on a lot of the systems.
We shook down wiring harnesses, tapped on limit switches, measured the signal at the retract solenoids and actuators.
Finally after two days of checking the system, Pete said " I think the nose gear actuator is weak and with the air currents during flight opposing the locking, it is failing in flight but not on the ground. "
So he looks around and has someone bring him a heavy rope about 20 feet long. He places the center of the rope behind the NG strut and he tells me to hold one end while he holds the other.
So we are going to replicate some forces behind the actuator with the rope. I was a little uneasy doing this since I think it was a 3000 psi hydraulic actuator.
Anyway he gives the crew chief the signal to raise the gear. The mains go up and the nose exerts pressure against the rope at first a good tug, then it simply gave away and Pete and I were able to actually stop the nose gear in mid travel and hold it. There was something wrong with the "spooler"or something in the actuator that didn't allow full strength pressure.
How cool it was though at the time, that sometimes simple farmyard physics and a rope are the best troubleshooting tool!
I carry this lesson to this day. Sometimes all the technology and gadgetry in the world is no substitute for common sense! haha
This is the best I can recall this. I wish I could remember Petes last name. He was the "go-to" guy for the six in the 48th FIS.
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Post by Gene on Jan 2, 2012 6:46:58 GMT 9
that's the kind of mechanic i'd like working on my vehicles... a lot of common sense and a good mechanical background...
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Post by lugnuts55 on Jan 2, 2012 12:47:44 GMT 9
genej50, you raise an interesting point. I was a crew chief on a F-106 before I went to school for auto mechanics. I did have some automotive experience during my years in the AF, though.
When I was working on airplanes, I considered it to be highly technical because that was the first vehicle of any kind that I was paid to maintain and I had never worked on anything like an airplane before. Also, it was in everyone's best interest to make sure those machines with the big wings would do what they were made to do...fly.
After the AF, I went to automotive school because there was a lot of talk about computers in cars and carbureters were going to be abolished. I felt I needed a good foundation of all the different systems on cars.
I left the AF in December 1974 and finished school in January 1976. I started working as a mechanic in February 1976. There were some cars with computers and sensors and electronic parts and I felt I had timed it right. The years passed and the technology continued to get more and more technical and many systems were controled electronically. To make things worse, I was now working for a large Chevy dealership and we went to schools for one or two days when something new came out that was being used and we needed to be able to diagnose the new things.
I am saying all this to show how auto mechanics get caught up in the technical side of things. I learned a lesson once when I was given the job of diagnosing a no-start problem. I got the book out and started following the flow charts and I couldn't find anything wrong but the engine would not start.
One of the other guys was walking by and he casually asked if there was a spark. I looked at him with my jaw on the floor. Why hadn't I thought of that. I went to the basics and checked for fuel, air, and spark, the three things needed to make an engine run. As it turned out, it had a bad ignition module and therefore no spark. I was slightly embarrassed because I'm a mechanic and I had forgotten the basics. However, it was a good lesson because I never forgot that and it helped me many more times after that over the years.
I am now retired and have been for about 9 years. I still have people call me and ask me to look at their cars. I do what I can but I am physically limited and there is much I can't do. There are also a lot of advancements that have left me far behind. I enjoyed my work and had a good following of customers who liked my work. I take a job occasionally because of the feeling of accomplishment when I am done but I am always glad to be done.
Sometimes it's good to get back to the basics.
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Post by adart on Jan 5, 2012 8:09:29 GMT 9
I left the Air Force in 1971 and enrolled in a electronics school,and various other courses to update with computers. I ended up becoming a Bio-Medical Tech. at a local hospital for 33 years. Ire tired from that profession in 2003. I had many times when a tech would ask about a problem and what I thought was wrong. I would always tell them start at the lowest end of the flow chart and work your way up. Most of the time it seemed to solve the problem. It just takes a little more time.
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sixerviper
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Post by sixerviper on Jan 16, 2012 13:15:14 GMT 9
What a cool original post! I don't particularly remember any problems or unconventional troubleshooting for the Six, F-105, or A-7, but I remember one for the F-16.
This jet presented an engine fault code (MFL) saying the a/c mach number was too high for the engine when the landing gear was down. Basically, for the engine to believe the airplane's exceeding a certain mach number (~.4 mach or so...) it must know the gear is up. We knew the gear retracted normally; even a fighter pilot would have been able to tell us if it didn't. The fault diagnosis tree in the T.O. wasn't very helpful, and we were scratching our heads as to what was wrong with the jet.
Me being a civilian pilot who'd flown the Viper simulator many times, I knew that the symbology picture in the HUD changed when the gear was up. Out of ideas, I went to the pilot who wrote the jet up, got his AVTR tape (gun camera tape for us old guys...) and noticed that his symbology never changed from the gear-down indication. The pilot had never noticed that!
We were able to isolate a bad landing gear uplock-downlock relay and had the jet fixed in fifteen minutes. The signal from this relay never changed from the "down" indication, so the engine computer thought the gear was down the whole flight. I felt pretty good about that.
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Jan 16, 2012 21:06:58 GMT 9
What a cool original post! I don't particularly remember any problems or unconventional troubleshooting for the Six, F-105, or A-7, but I remember one for the F-16. This jet presented an engine fault code (MFL) saying the a/c mach number was too high for the engine when the landing gear was down. Basically, for the engine to believe the airplane's exceeding a certain mach number (~.4 mach or so...) it must know the gear is up. We knew the gear retracted normally; even a fighter pilot would have been able to tell us if it didn't. The fault diagnosis tree in the T.O. wasn't very helpful, and we were scratching our heads as to what was wrong with the jet. Me being a civilian pilot who'd flown the Viper simulator many times, I knew that the symbology picture in the HUD changed when the gear was up. Out of ideas, I went to the pilot who wrote the jet up, got his AVTR tape (gun camera tape for us old guys...) and noticed that his symbology never changed from the gear-down indication. The pilot had never noticed that! We were able to isolate a bad landing gear uplock-downlock relay and had the jet fixed in fifteen minutes. The signal from this relay never changed from the "down" indication, so the engine computer thought the gear was down the whole flight. I felt pretty good about that. While not experiencing that exact problem, your story sure does bring back a lot of memories of the troubleshooting we did in Phase docks at Hill on the early A and B models when they Dart was brand new with little experienced troubleshooting documented anywhere. We would jack and retract constantly trying to find those mysterious wire harness problems that made life so difficult for us. Great story, really liked that :2thumbsup :2thumbsup
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Post by bear (Deceased) on Jan 17, 2012 1:44:48 GMT 9
A 106 fresh out of dock on engine run smoke from DC generator on CSD shut down found burnt wiring at the terminal board on MA-1 689 or DC generator. Of course the guy who hooked up the generator was blamed, wiring repaired and engine run again same thing brunt wires. Found 300VDC shorted to Gnd, when they put the missile bay panels on someone put an extra long screw in place of 1/2 one that was a bitch to find.
Bear
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bobdavis
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 19, 2012 13:08:09 GMT 9
Great replies. I was able to find some papers that mentioned Pete's counterpart F106 Rep. at Tyndall and I remember him also. His name was Floyd Pratt. This made me wonder if there were Hughes/Convair civil service Reps like these guys at all of the other squadrons? Maybe someone from the 48th will remember Pete's last name.
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Post by bear (Deceased) on Jan 19, 2012 14:01:06 GMT 9
If I am not mistaken Floyd Pratt went with the 94th to Osan And when we ferry the bird back at the stop at Guam they took the refueling system apart and put it all back together and it worked the rest of the way to Selfridge
Bear
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bobdavis
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 19, 2012 23:11:49 GMT 9
If I am not mistaken Floyd Pratt went with the 94th to Osan And when we ferry the bird back at the stop at Guam they took the refueling system apart and put it all back together and it worked the rest of the way to Selfridge Bear Wow. Last I saw Floyd was 1980 in the 4756th at Tyndall. I left the USAF then. Floyd helped me with a major rewire on an F106, I can't recall the system, but I spent a few weeks every day in the hangar working it.
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Post by dude on Feb 15, 2012 10:19:07 GMT 9
Great replies. I was able to find some papers that mentioned Pete's counterpart F106 Rep. at Tyndall and I remember him also. His name was Floyd Pratt. This made me wonder if there were Hughes/Convair civil service Reps like these guys at all of the other squadrons? Maybe someone from the 48th will remember Pete's last name. I was in the 48th from 73-79. The MA-1 Hughes rep that was there was Herman Jansen (Herm). I remember another guy named Harold Jacobsen. Think we called him Jake. There was a third guy, which might have been your Pete. But for the life of me I can't put a last name to him. Sorry.
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bobdavis
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Post by bobdavis on Feb 19, 2012 8:09:15 GMT 9
Great replies. I was able to find some papers that mentioned Pete's counterpart F106 Rep. at Tyndall and I remember him also. His name was Floyd Pratt. This made me wonder if there were Hughes/Convair civil service Reps like these guys at all of the other squadrons? Maybe someone from the 48th will remember Pete's last name. I was in the 48th from 73-79. The MA-1 Hughes rep that was there was Herman Jansen (Herm). I remember another guy named Harold Jacobsen. Think we called him Jake. There was a third guy, which might have been your Pete. But for the life of me I can't put a last name to him. Sorry. Dude, I seem to remember the guy named Jake. This made me recall the names of some of the other civil service guys that worked at Tyndall with me. We had quite a few. Jim Yarbor and Vince Domico worked in the in-shop electric shop. They repaired beacon light assemblies, some control boxes and such for the sixes, t-33s and F101s we had at the time. They introduced me to Levi Garret chewing tobacco. Then there was Ken Keller who worked electrical systems flightline. Neat gentleman, I went bay fishing, gigging flounder with him. Then a tall guy named Hank who worked flightline Hydraulic systems. Long time ago. They'd all have to be in their 80's now at least.
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novapwr
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Post by novapwr on Feb 22, 2012 8:28:42 GMT 9
I don't remember that particular problem that was fixed with the rope, but I did witness an F 106 land with the nosegear stuck up. This was probably late 77 or late 78, not exactly sure but one of those two years. I am pretty certain this was a plane I launched that morning. We watched them foam the runway and then waited. The pilot landed the plane and held the nose up for what seemed forever. As he neared the middle of the runway straight out from the hangar he gently settled the nose down into the foam. I thought at the time how great a job he had done. When he was stopped he still had a good pc of runway left. I remember this all pretty well because the next morning the flightline van delivered me to the wash rack to clean the whole plane! Only damage I saw was to the bottom of the radome. I think this was on the B model but could be mistaken. Seems the problem was the big axle nut was hung up on a wire bundle that had not been secured tightly enough and the nut caught on the slack in the wire harness. I also remember the guys telling me the foam was made from animal blood and guts.... ? I always figured they were just pulling my leg but I was suited up like an astronaut when I washed that thing! Lol! Took me the whole shift but it was sparkling when I finished. I remember it was cold out cause my hands were freezing even with rubber gloves on. Wish I could remember more details but it's been a long time ago. Anyways I had pretty much forgotten that story until I read this first post.
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Post by dude on Feb 22, 2012 9:29:03 GMT 9
Yep I was there too and watched her come in. I think I made a post about it a year or so ago. As I recall it was an A model flown by Capt. Budinger. Damage to the radome because they didn't lay down enough foam and he slid out it. Otherwise, it would have been perfect. Also thought the lower UHF antenna was lost. Anyway, you're right about the bundle. Bird was being brought back from Homestead and they had a CPU-111 change down there. They dropped the wire bundle to do it and a wire bundle clamp was inadvertently reversed when it was put back in. This pushed the bundle out towards the gear instead of in and away from it. Don't know if its true, but I heard the Instrument troop down there got an Article 15.
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Post by Mark O on Feb 22, 2012 12:13:14 GMT 9
:welcome to the forums "Novapwr"!! Glad to have another member of the F-106 family around! BTW, what squadron(s) were you in, and what was your AFSC? This is kind of like the hall of fame. If you were in more than one you get to pick your favorite so we can use it for your avatar! Looking forward to reading your experiences (as well as the rest of you, of course)!! Animal blood & guts??!!!
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Post by jimpadgett on Feb 23, 2012 0:17:38 GMT 9
Blood certainly. Really good fertilizer, too. We were across the road from the fire dept. at Billings and the used to clear the O-11B fire truck turret onto our lawn. If let go too long, you could not even push a lawnmower through the grass.
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novapwr
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Post by novapwr on Feb 23, 2012 12:30:22 GMT 9
to the forums "Novapwr"!! Glad to have another member of the F-106 family around! BTW, what squadron(s) were you in, and what was your AFSC? This is kind of like the hall of fame. If you were in more than one you get to pick your favorite so we can use it for your avatar! Looking forward to reading your experiences (as well as the rest of you, of course)!! Animal blood & guts??!!! Thank you for the welcome guys! I have been signed up here a year or so but usually just read and keep quiet. I was assigned to the 48th FIS from 77-79 as a 43151C. Came from the 401st OMS in Torrejon. Did my four and got out but I always loved working on jets. If I remember any more interesting stories, I will be sure to share. I have enjoyed the past year reading the posts here. Nice site guys!
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Post by Mark O on Feb 23, 2012 13:15:26 GMT 9
Thank you for the welcome guys! I have been signed up here a year or so but usually just read and keep quiet. I was assigned to the 48th FIS from 77-79 as a 43151C. Came from the 401st OMS in Torrejon. Did my four and got out but I always loved working on jets. If I remember any more interesting stories, I will be sure to share. I have enjoyed the past year reading the posts here. Nice site guys! 48th FIS it is!! Here's how to add an avatar to your profile. Click on your user name. Up on top you will see "Modify Profile." Click on that, then scroll down to "Personal Information." Under that section you will find the "Avatar" with a drop down button. Select "48" and then scroll all the way down on that page and hit "Modify Profile." You'll then have a 48th FIS patch for your avatar!! Woo Hoo!! Again, glad to have you here!
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novapwr
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Post by novapwr on Feb 26, 2012 1:37:16 GMT 9
Thank you Mark O! That was easy with your most excellent directions!
Dave
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