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Post by thud Ron Kollas (deceased) on Dec 25, 2010 11:09:24 GMT 9
Anyone who spent time in the 460th FIS will certainly recognize the Cave Tigrim patch. The Black Rams patch is the patch the 460 Fighter Squadron wore in WWII while flying the P47 & P51. Over the internet I have been in contact with retired LtCol Curtis Keeler who not only sent me the patch, but today also received a lapel pin of the Black Rams. I have tried for quite some time to find out for sure when the 460th became the Cave Tigrims. It evidently took place when they were re-activated aftrer WWII, but I can't find it in writing. Can anyone help me out?
Ron Kollas
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Post by Mark O on Dec 25, 2010 12:24:38 GMT 9
I'll do some digging -- in fact, I just found this site for the original 460th -- but the question that immediately comes to mind is, when the 460th was re-activated at McGhee-Tyson in 1954, did it assume the insignia from someone else? Or, did it assume it from the unit at Portland when they moved there? See where I'm going? Remember the 87th FIS had different colors until they assumed the markings of the 11th FIS when that unit was deactivated. Sure, they changed it up a bit, but they became the Red Bulls. It all gets pretty confusing, but as I recall from my US Army days, when they changed unit colors and designations, the unit with the most significant, or longer history usually retained those colors. What we need to find out is, what was the original "Cave Tigrim" unit? Marty? Erv? Any info on this one?  Here's the site I found on the 460th FS... theblackrams.com/Historical.htmlMark |
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Post by pat perry on Dec 26, 2010 2:27:13 GMT 9
I'll do some digging -- in fact, I just found this site for the original 460th -- but the question that immediately comes to mind is, when the 460th was re-activated at McGhee-Tyson in 1954, did it assume the insignia from someone else? Or, did it assume it from the unit at Portland when they moved there? See where I'm going? Remember the 87th FIS had different colors until they assumed the markings of the 11th FIS when that unit was deactivated. Sure, they changed it up a bit, but they became the Red Bulls. It all gets pretty confusing, but as I recall from my US Army days, when they changed unit colors and designations, the unit with the most significant, or longer history usually retained those colors. What we need to find out is, what was the original "Cave Tigrim" unit? Marty? Erv? Any info on this one? Here's the site I found on the 460th FS... theblackrams.com/Historical.htmlMark Mark & Thud, Found this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxnard_AFBIf this is accurate, the 460th reactivated at Oxnard "due to the fact that the 460th FIS was regarded by ADC of having a more distinguished history." The 456th Moved to Oxnard and was redesignated the 437th for about two months before being redesignated as the 460th. If the 437th patch shown is accurate, it may be the 460th adapted it as "Cave Tigrim". This page ranger95.com/airforce/airforces_ww2/1st_af/ny_fighter_wing/348th_fg/460th_fs.htmindicates the Cave Tigrim insignia was approved for the 460th on Jan 17, 1955. You might try the Air Force Historical Research Association at www.afhra.af.mil They were helpful in helping us find the origin of the 456th FIS Luther the octopus emblem history back to WWII. The evolution of the insignia to the 1960's era gave us a difficult task which we never really solved. We could only estimate that the more modern design evolved as graphic artists updated it while staying true to the original design concept. The Cave Tigrim (Beware of the Tiger) has been a popular insignia used by a number of military units around the world as indicated by my Google search on Cave Tigrim. Good Luck on your search. Pat P. :teacher |
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Post by thud Ron Kollas (deceased) on Dec 26, 2010 8:10:53 GMT 9
The question now becomes,when the 460th was activated at McGhee-Tyson in 54 were they known as the Black Rams? The one link posted says the Cave Tigrim patch was adopted in 55.
The 460th then moved to Portland Intl Airport OR & flew F89's for a year or so, then F102'a until deactivated in 66. Tis a shame there are no more "Fly If Sunny" units like one of the TAC pilots I knew like to call FIS units!!
Ron
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Post by steve201 (deceased) on Dec 26, 2010 8:40:55 GMT 9
yep....it was at grand forks afb that I was assigned to maintenance control supply liason office for the 460th....a plane broke...I had to scramble around to find the parts....
I think it was activated in GFABFB as the 460th fis...
Steve
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Post by oswald on Dec 26, 2010 9:12:12 GMT 9
 I have a sister and her husband that were at McGee Tyson and contacted him on this and he said he would research this to help figure out when the squadron changed the patch. :thumbsup
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Post by Jim on Dec 26, 2010 10:51:07 GMT 9
Sure beats all our Political stuff don't it............. The Old Sarge
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Post by oswald on Dec 26, 2010 23:41:39 GMT 9
It does for me anyway
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Post by pat perry on Dec 27, 2010 3:31:33 GMT 9
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f89j1905
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
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Post by f89j1905 on Jan 18, 2011 14:56:16 GMT 9
Was there a 460th Det 1 patch for the guys that were at Duluth after the 11th left for KI Sewer? :e9new Jim
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I have a sister and her husband that were at McGee Tyson and contacted him on this and he said he would research this to help figure out when the squadron changed the patch. :thumbsup 
