adcfan
F-106 Qualified
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Post by adcfan on Oct 24, 2012 2:25:30 GMT 9
Typical pilot...Ops to aircraft, aircraft to ops, sees no one else but crew chief. If you saw a pilot in the shops, they had to be lost. The best one is the pilot who bails out and then goes to the life support shop to thank them for saving his butt...however ever goes to the parachute shop to thank them!!
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Post by LBer1568 on Oct 24, 2012 10:08:31 GMT 9
I most have been very lucky in my career. I was in 539th and we had pilots comming out on flightline to talk to us late at night. They usuially brought coffee as well. They knew we made it possible for them to look good. I could turn one little MA-1 adjustment and they were nothing more than portable radio.
Tyndall was different. We had lots of pilot's cross training into the six. The MA-1 was a ballbuster for a new crewman. But we had some of the best Instructor Pilots in AF. They would come back to aircraft after debriefing and see how we were doing and if we understood their write-ups.
Then I cross trained in to Flight Sims and worked with aircrew's every day. Many times I would take one of crew positions if they didn't have full crew. We did tours for everyone who came by and said hey can I see Sim?
I guess what I am saying is, maybe it's the new AF where aircrews don't appriciate the Maintainer's. Sure they do what the boss says, but the AF doesn't have SQ beer parties after some major accomplishment like IG.ORI/Weapons Deployment etc. The new AF doesn't have the comradary we used to. How do I know, I worked for another 20 years after retiring on or for WPAFB OH. I went TDY more after retirement than before. I worked with many Senior NCO's and Officers. Everyone is tired of deployments and time in the desert. Back in my days it was the other side of earth. Viet Nam went for over 10 years, Afghan is over 10 years now. So most of our old timers saw the same rotations and TDY's away from families.
Maybe we should outlaw Wars, or armed conflicts. All in favor say Aye...Aye
Lorin
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff 
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Oct 24, 2012 11:35:30 GMT 9
During my time in ADC, November 1952 to February 1967, I saw lots of pilots spending time with people on the Flightline.
Most ADC pilots tended to befriend their own crew chief and sometimes bent the fraternization rules.
Squadron parties included all jobs and all ranks.
Whilst at The SCAB, in 1955, I was assigned to the 519th FIS, which became the 13th a few weeks later.
Major (L/C selectee) Stewart became our commander.
He had been a maintenance officer and test pilot.
Most maintenance officers in those days flew test flights.
Major Stewart began a unique program for our squadron.
All new pilots were assigned to a crew chief for two weeks.
They wore fatigues and brogans, and were to be treated as an OJT 3 Level.
They learned how to refuel the Saber Dog, change its tires and brakes, preflight, including crawling up the intake.
They also were taught how to install a drag chute.
When they were finally assigned to a flying flight and became the "official" pilot of an F-86D, they were a part of the system, not set apart.
When they landed with a problem, most would stick around to talk to the crew chief and/or any specialist needed.
We ended up with an exceptional in commission rate and every Friday at 1300 the kegs were cracked in the hanger.
Provided we had a 90% in commission status.
In the several years I was in the 13th, we were never below 90% on Friday after-noon.
That went on for three more commanders, but after L/C Stewart left for the Pentagon in 1957, the pilot training system kind of fell apart.
However, the way pilots treated their ground crews never changed.
When I got to Ubon, Thailand on F-4s, there was a bit of pilots and crew chiefs getting along.
I think a lot of that had to do with Robin Olds and Chappie James.
However, the GIBs were in a world of their own and I don't think many of them even got along with their pilots.
When I got to DaNang, I was in Maintenance Control and seldom had any conversations with pilots, other than our L/C and others in our shop.
At Mt. Home, RF-4Cs, I would have pilots come in to Maintenance Control from time-to-time, to talk about a problem with the bird they had flown.
Sometimes they were accompanied by the crew chief.
I don't know what it is like now, but from what I hear, it doesn't sound like there is that camaraderie we had in the old ADC squadrons.
Too bad, as it built strong units.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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Post by Mark O on Oct 24, 2012 11:55:28 GMT 9
Being what I think is the guy here with the most recent experience, I'll give you my version. Of course this was from 2000 to 2011, so I think it's pretty accurate. I can only speak for Air Mobility Command, and on KC-135s & C-130s.
No. Pilots, and ground crew only saw each other when it was time for crew show, landing, or at debrief. Part of that has to do with the fact that they are in different squadrons. When I first came in we were in the AGS, or Aircraft Generation Squadron. That's what we did - generate sorties. That changed to AMXS, or Aircraft Maintenance Squadrons. (Don't get that confused with an MXS (Maintenance Squadron), or MOS (Maintenance Operations Squadron.)
Anyway, you met the pilot when he got to your aircraft, handed him the 781s, and briefed him on the status of the aircraft, fuel load, any open write-ups, and so on. When they landed you would debrief him (or her) on the spot, and get the word from the horses mouth on any new write-ups, and the landing fuel load. From there the pilot would go to maintenance debrief inside, and sign the forms over to them. It would get entered into the system, and the Production Superintendent would get the forms, pass them to the expediter, and you would get them back on the line usually within an hour (or so.)
About the only other time you would see a pilot would be at the BX, or commissary. Seriously.
On the C-130 side it was very similar EXCEPT, the engineer would show up first, handle the brief from the crew chief for the crew show, and do the same at landing. The pilots wouldn't even go to the maintenance debrief. We would. Now, of course the crew chiefs would be out there when the pilots and navigator would show up, and they would want to look at the forms, but it wasn't as detailed as we engineers would get into. The pilot would get his information from us.
With the C-130J, and no engineers, I understand the loadmaster does a bunch of what we used to do. Or so I've heard. I imagine the pilots are back doing the maintenance debrief.
The only real exception to those procedures is when we went on the road, especially on the KC-135s. As a flying crew chief we did it all with the pilots including partying. It was a whole other ballgame on the road.
Oh yea, the Air National Guard was much looser than the active guys as well. I really enjoyed my time there.
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