From a 318th pilot by the name of Kelly sent the following to me, I sent him my take on it and fwd it to 3 other pilot friends of mine and attached are their answers to the question and my reply....... Read the original post," Where have all the ftr pilots gone?" then my attachment and then read their answers, especially Kelley"s........... You were appreciated then and these guys still appreciate we maintainers..................... The Old Sarge
From: A J Kelly
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 9:59 PM
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: Where have all the fighter pilots gone?
We’ve come a long way !!?? Use to go to the "O" Club, but now no one goes..
I don’t know who “Bud” is (Below), but I think he may be onto something.
-------------------------------------------------------
From: Retired US Air Force Fighter Pilot
Subject: Where Have All The Fighter Pilots Gone?
For all ex-military pilots, read it and weep and pass along. I happen to be one of those who would agree with the sentiments expressed herein. Think about this when you read the rest of the letter below. What happened to our Air Force? We used to go to the Officers Club Stag Bar on Friday afternoons to drink, smoke and swap lies with our comrades.
Drinking became frowned on. Smoking caused cancer and could "harm you". Stag bars became sexist. Gradually, our men quit patronizing their clubs because what happened in the Club became fodder for a Performance Report. Same thing at the Airman's Club and the NCO and/or Top 3 clubs. Now we don't have separate clubs for the ranks. Instead we have something called "xxx" Air Force Base Club. It's open to men and women of all ranks....from Airman Basic to General Officer. Still, no one is there. Gee, I wonder why.
The latest brilliant thought out of Washington is that the "pilots?" flying remote aircraft in combat areas from their duty station in Nevada or Arizona should draw the same combat pay as those real world pilots actually on board a plane in a hostile environment. This is the Politically Correct Logic? The remote vehicle operator is subject to the same stress levels as the combat pilot actually flying in combat. REALLY!!!
Now that I've primed you a little, read on.
Bud
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Where Have All The Fighter Pilots Gone? Good Question.
Here is a rant from a retired fighter pilot that is worth reading:
It is rumored that our current secretary of defense recently asked the question, "Where are all the dynamic leaders of the past?" I can only assume, if that is true, that he was referring to Robin Olds, Jimmy Doolittle, Patton, Ike, “Pappy”Boyington, Nimitz, etc. I've got the answer. They were fired before they made Major.
Our nation doesn't want those kinds of leaders anymore. Squadron commanders don't run squadrons and wing commanders don't run wings. They are managed by higher ranking dildos with other esoteric goals in mind. Can you imagine someone today looking for a LEADER to execute that Doolittle Raid and suggesting that it be given to a dare-devil boozer-his only attributes: he had the respect of his men, an awesome ability to fly, and the organizational skills to put it all together. If someone told me there was a chance in hell of selecting that man today, I would tell them they were either a liar or dumber than $hit.
I find it ironic that the Air Force put Gen Olds on the cover of the company rag last month. While it made me extremely proud to see his face, he wouldn't make it across any base in America (or overseas) without ten enlisted folks telling him to zip up his flight suit and shave his mustache off. I have a feeling that his response would be predictable and for that crime he would probably get a trip home and an Article 15. We have lost the war on rugged individualism and that, unfortunately, is what fighter pilots want to follow; not because they have to but because they respect leaders of that ilk. We've all run across that leader that made us proud to follow him because you wanted to be like him and make a difference. The individual you would drag your testicles through glass for rather than disappoint him.
We better wake the hell up! We're asking our young men and women to go to crappy places, some with unbearable climates, never have a drink, have little or no contact with the opposite sex, not look at magazines of a suggestive nature of any type, and adhere to ridiculous regs that require you to tuck your shirt into your PT uniform on the way to the port- potty shitter at night in a dust storm because it's a uniform. These people we're sending to combat are some of the brightest I've met but they are looking for a little sanity, which they will only find on the outside if we don't get a clue. You can't continue asking people to live for months or years at a time acting like nuns and priests. Hell, even they get to have a beer.
Who are we afraid of offending? Are we afraid of offending guys that already hate us enough to strap C4 to their own bodies and walk into a crowd of us? Think about it.
I'm extremely proud of our young men and women who continue to serve. I'm also very in tune with what they are considering for the future and I've got news for whoever sits in the White House, congress, and our so-called military leaders. Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanta-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts--one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: irishafone@q.com
To: Former ftr pilots
Subject: Re: Where have all the fighter pilots gone?
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:46:13 -0700
AJ, I know not what your period of service was, but the crap you are referring to can be laid in the laps of a very few generals (in the AF, even tho the other branches had their own class of PC _hitheads) a couple from the late sixties- 3 finger Jack Wilson to name one, later came McPeek with all his uniform changes, along with the specialty badges with stars and wreathes that no one to this day really understands, and Creech who made some sort of contribution to have a base named after him- in fact the home of the AF Model Airplane (radio controlled type) Club at Creech AFB, Nv................ A job that shouldn't require a college degree to perform in an outstanding manner...................I came into the AF at a time when there were many flying Sgts. that had been commissioned 2lt after the war that were recalled for the Korean War, one who retired as a LC and another that, due to the amount of enlisted time retired as a Captain (he was a wild one of the true ftr pilot genre which may have held him back) .... I flew with both of these men and worked for both them twice in my career of over 25 years.................... Another thing that disappeared were the old beer busts in the hangar where the pilots and top sgts filled a flyaway kit with ice and beer............When the flying sqdns lost their maint people to Camrons and OMS, the esprit de corps that existed disappeared as well, no camaraderie between a crew chief and a pilot............ The Officers and the top 3 NCOs of today are being brainwashed with PC crap to be pc robots..................................... Glad I am near the end of my time and hopefully won't live to see the military pitted against the general population because His Royal Highness didn't get his better equipped civilian army organized in time......
The time, regrettably for "THROW A NICKEL ON THE GRASS, SAVE A FTR PILOT'S ASS" passed away a long time ago and will not return........... Nor will the OC, Top 3, NCO, and Airmen's clubs, they no longer being politically correct and having nothing to contribute to the mission......... I use to blame this situation on a few of you drivers that failed to be convinced that the A2 leather flight jacket from WW2 was a good inducement to stick around and help try to stave off this this crap, along with slow promotions and the constant over the horizon RIF...........A lot of Top 3 NCOs who got tired of beating our heads against the wall when this crap really became obvious and said to hell with it and took retirement, and a lot of us turned down Chief to do so..............I was one of them with a line number and a 9 month waiting period, which meant I would have to serve almost 3 years........ No way, I could see a court-martial before I would reach the mandatory 2 years TIG before I could retire............. So you see, airplane drivers aren't the only ones who got PCd out................. But, that was where the esprit de corps originated------between drivers and the fixers................... Now you have high faluting titles that only impress those that made them up, ie, excessive use of the word Forces in titles for squadrons, groups and even wings Time to get off my soap box and get the 2nd Thanksgiving Day meal ready........... God Bless and thanks for letting an old man stand on his soap box..... The Old Sarge
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: M. Ross Shulmister
To: ftr pilots and Old Sarge
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:20 AM
Subject: Where have all the fighter pilots gone?
Well, that's all true, but I can tell you that we still have fighter pilots in the Air Force.
I recently returned from a reunion of F-106 pilots from the 27th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (Loring AFB, ME). We were hosted by fighter pilots of the 27th Fighter Squadron, Langley AFB (F-22s). They took us inside the squadron, inside the maintenance hangar, and out to the flight line. We even had an opportunity to sit in an F-22 cockpit. We were honored guests. Then they took us to the fighter-pilots-only retreat, an indescribable experience (which is not discussed outside the confines of that retreat).
The officers club at Langley is a zombie, and without a doubt it is the result of "progressive" leadership policies (WTF do military brass know about running a business???); but despite that, I can vouch that there are still military fighter pilots, at least in Virginia. Every one of you would be incredibly proud of them, and they are every bit of what we once were - maybe even a little more so.
M. Ross
"The Purple Falcon"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: The Viper Pilot
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 2:21 PM
To: Jim G and ftr pilots
Cc: Subject: Re: Where have all the fighter pilots gone?
Sarge,
Thanks for presenting the "other side of the coin"; I concur. We had a bit of a respite from that in the early 80's when the AMS's were aligned with the flying units and we deployed as a unified team with the AMS commander reporting directly to the Squadron CC during the deployment. I had a squadron CO call a Pilot meeting and told all the pilots with names on airplanes that if they didn't know the assigned crew chief and assistant by first name, their family status (including wife's first name and number of kids), and what they drank, then your name would be removed from the canopy rail ... The camaraderie that grew between the aviators and the wrench benders would remain back at the base afterward. McPeak reversed all the progress that was made when he took over.
Regards,
The Viper Pilot
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: A J Kelly
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 4:19 PM
To: -Jim Gier The Old Sarge
Subject: Re: Where have all the fighter pilots gone?
Yes, I know there are still real fighter pilots and real crew chiefs in the AF, some with big balls and. some with big ovaries. And, they have their own private little clubs in their squadron buildings and hangars. What a shame, the AF has made them hide there! I remember clearly each of my own crew chiefs and many more that belonged to the consolidated systems. The squadron arrangement was always better, and the AF reinvented it about every three years. When we had the "...old beer busts in the hangar where the pilots and top sgts filled a flyaway kit with ice and beer..." and I was usually first to be selected by the crew chiefs to be put in the ice tank. I felt honored. Those crew chief - pilot get-togethers were so very important. I knew from get-go that airplanes didn't come from Ops, Command Post, or Workload Control, and that they came only from the flight line where the crew chiefs worked their asses off. I got to fly many X-3 flights by knowing this fact. By-passing the system got me in a little trouble more than once, but it got the job done. It also increased my monthy flight time, and rarely was I not in the tops three. '56 - '80 was my period, to answer "The Old Sarge" comment. My name was painted on a new F-106, 590063, at the 318FIS, 325FG, and 325FW. The crew chiefs worked for the frustrating consolidated system of 66-1, but I always felt their loyalty to me personally. I hope that I always properly recipicated their efforts. Gen David Jones should be remembered for his attempt to standardize the entire AF to something that I never understood. I remember him as one of the biggest embarassment to the Air War College when I attended. Adam Greenleaf was another. We had a few other Jackasses, but I can think of many that were great, who retired in frustration. I had a wonderful career of actively flying fighters for 23 years, plus one year at AWC. It was during Jimmy Carter's presidency that I decided to retire at least six years early. Maybe I should have stayed for Ronnie Regan, but no regrats! I didn't realize, while in service, how all the political crap affected us all from the top down and from the bottom up. I still don't really get it, but it was a great ride. I probably wouldn't have change a thing if I did it all over. AJ
