MOW
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Post by MOW on Apr 25, 2010 7:37:59 GMT 9
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Two Air Defense Interceptor Pilots -vs- Two Tactical Fighter Pilots by S. Michael Townsend, LTC, USAF Ret. “Viper 1, Pierre, Bucko, Genie, FMO, Rafsob”
Circa 1984 I was a Captain stationed at Tyndall AFB as an F-106 Instructor. This day my wingman, a fellow Captain and Instructor, and I were scheduled for Dissimilar Air Combat Training (DACT) with two F-16s from Shaw AFB. I was to be the Instructor for the training on the Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Range (ACMI) over the Gulf of Mexico, a highly accurate tracking system that would record all maneuvers in the airspace by the aircraft, score all shots taken and simulate any kills. None of us had ever fought against the other type fighter. Tactical Air Command pilots considered Air Defense pilots a lesser breed. I started the preflight briefing after introductions with the Lieutenant Colonel (LTC) and his wingman a Lieutenant (LT). The LTC immediately interrupted and informed me that he had no idea why they were scheduled for DACT with aircraft that were far inferior to the F-16 and that it would not be much of a challenge for them resulting in very little effective training. He stated that we should engage with full up all weapons capability for both fighter types even stating that though they only had heaters (heat seeking missiles) and guns he saw no disadvantage for them. I hid the fact that he had pissed us off and verified that he meant for us to use the full weapons capability of the F-106. He replied, of course you can! Obviously he had no idea what we carried between our legs, a clueless state of mind! I smiled as I looked at my wingman while stroking the inside of my thigh; this pecker checker was going to get hammered when the Genie popped up! I briefed the LTC to take his flight to the farthest most southern point of the airspace and be prepared to attack the coastline that we would defend. We would place ourselves on “Five” (five minute alert) and scramble when we saw him takeoff giving him the advantage of being ready when we arrived. I told him to be sure to look at the F-106 ramp on takeoff to verify that we there on “Five” and this would be important during the debrief. We briefed two engagements followed by join up for 1v1 basic fighter maneuvers (BFM), him versus me and the wingmen against each other. The fun began as they lifted off and saw us on the edge of the ramp, “communicating”, with a raised finger over two rising moons! We had a hard time getting our crew chiefs to stop laughing so we could launch. A gate (full afterburner) climb to 41,000 feet put us in the airspace in 6 minutes when I called “fight’s on”! I felt sorry for my wingman because he would not get a shot on this first engagement. One minute later I called “Fox 3, KILL, two F-16s north bound at 18,000 feet. Nock- it off, nock-it off, fights over, return to your safe area,” was immediately passed to the Viper pilots. The LTC was so confused that the ground control intercept (GCI) controller had to tell him he had been shot by a “NUC” (Genie nuclear tipped rocket) and that him and his wingman were DEAD so return to your point! I told GCI to inform him that we had one more Genie but that we wouldn’t use it on the next engagement. Score: Darts 2, Vipers 0I put my wingman in four mile trail as we began the next engagement from 41,000 feet at 1.2 MACH racing down to their altitude of 18,000 feet, dumb a - - he didn’t even change his altitude to make it harder on us. Since they had face heaters (firing heat seekers in our face), we cooled our jets by retarding the engines to idle power to cool them off and denying the face shot while maintaining supersonic on our downhill slide. They took the bait, the leader rolled out behind me, the wingman behind mine. We had them right where we wanted them! Not even an F-16 can sustain a climb followed by a 9 G turn and roll out 2 miles behind a supersonic target and chase them down so the missile will make the kill. The leader found himself in front of my wingman who easily “Doe popped” him with two missiles while outrunning the F-16 wingman. Score: Darts 1, Vipers 0
After a fuel check we split for 1v1 BFM. Starting from line abreast each fighter turns 45 degrees away from the other to gain spacing. At the fight’s on call the fighters turn toward each other passing canopy to canopy with no advantage. The knife fight begins in earnest as they turn to gain six o’clock on the other for a guns kill. Hands are helpful in explaining what happens next. Obviously the Viper can out turn a Dart and the LTC was behind me closing for guns! My next maneuver required exact timing or it would turn out all bad. As he closed for the shot I presented him with the infamous “F-106 Barn Door”. This is a frightening experience for anyone who has never seen the Dart act in such an unbelievable aerodynamic manner. Never attempt this maneuver at home as it should only be done by a highly trained and experienced Dart driver! With him captured solidly at my six, in a hard four G turn, closing for the kill, fangs out and dripping, I held the G while applying full opposite rudder. The Dart responds beautifully with an opposite direction roll through the vertical to a full nose down dive where I apply full afterburner and dash for the deck. From the Viper’s cockpit it looked just like someone opened a barn door in his face, nowhere to go and no idea what to do. Suddenly the Dart disappears. His only option was to call nock-it off because he lost sight having never squeezed the trigger. Meanwhile our wingman had to nock-it off because the LT was low on fuel. Score: Darts 0, Vipers 0I sent the Vipers home and my wingman and I played for a while. My debriefing was short and sweet. The Fighter pilots had to fly again to get some real training. It went something like this: Know your enemy. Never underestimate your enemy. Never enter a gun fight with a knife. Never engage an enemy when you don’t have a clue. Lose sight lose the fight. Pecker checkers should be well endowed. When the Genie pops up, you’re goanna die! Nothing was ever said about the moons, I believe we “communicated” effectively! Final Score: Darts 3, Vipers 0 America remained safe from attack!! S. Michael Townsend, LTC, USAF Ret. “Viper 1, Pierre, Bucko, Genie, FMO, Rafsob”
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Apr 25, 2010 8:40:36 GMT 9
Thats a great story and very well written. :thanks :fire_missle_ani
:fire_missle_ani
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burt49
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Post by burt49 on Apr 25, 2010 9:32:30 GMT 9
Big scores for the good guys. Our Griff pilots took on Navy F-8's one time and had their tails tucked between their legs on the first day. During the evening hours a lot of strategies were put into place and it wound up 50-50 the next day. On the third day is was all Six's as our guys won the day. An F-8 was a worth adversary in the hands of an experienced pilot. While on paper the 106 should be able to take it, the real battles were fought in the sky. Our guys learned from their mistakes and maximized the good charactericts of the 106 to capitalize on the weaknesses of the F-8. That is how our guys help keep this nation free. B. McKee USAF
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Post by steve201 (deceased) on Apr 25, 2010 9:51:42 GMT 9
AWESOME!!!!!.......
don't know how true it is ..but I heard during a red flag event that the "6's" and killed about everything in the air and had one F111 driver so ticked off walking away from his plane, that he slammed his helmet on the ground and screamed he'd been shot 6 times before he ever saw the damned things..... I love the 6's...got anymore stories??
Steve
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Apr 25, 2010 11:05:50 GMT 9
Great Six story.
TAC was a terrible place to be. When I left Minot I went to Ubon on F4s and got stuck on them to the end. I was at George and didn't play their silly games, so they put me in the control room, then at DaNang I was in the control room and finally at Mt. Home, yep, control room. At George and MT. Home I was exempt for deployments because I was a senior controller.
I knew pilots that had been in ADC, went to TAC, and back to ADC, that said they would consider getting out if they had to play the silly TAC games.
TAC was originally a part of SAC. That means they were cut from the same mold that LeMay poured for all his troops.
No individualism and certainly don't take the initiative on your own.
At Ubon I was under Robin Olds and Chappy James. While they were there the base was just like and ADC base. Lots of fun. I'm glad I left shortly after they did.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Apr 25, 2010 11:17:27 GMT 9
When our birds at Minot were modified to have the IR head, the pilots had a great time with SAC.
Col. Broughton kept the mod quiet and SAC didn't know what was going on. They were too far above us lowly ADC cretins to care about anything we did. Boy, did they have a superiority complex.
The first flight of Sixes to ask for intercepts on BUFFs was told before takeoff that they would have to play by SAC rules. That meant letting the ECM guy on the BUFF play his games.
The Sixes went up. Turned off the normal radar and went in using the IR.
Ground control told the BUFF they were after that it had been shot down. They questioned it and asked for a second try. Same results.
Their SAC wing CO called Col. Broughton to find out what kind of secret weapon they were using that the ECM guys were not picking up the radar from the Sixes.
Col. Broughton told him it was an ADC secret and he would have to find out from ADC HQ.
The BUFFs never did figure out how to jam the IR.
Sure made it fun at Minot to tell the BUFF ground crews that their big fancy planes were getting creamed by our "inferior" fighters.
I do think the Six could still do it, if anyone in the Puzzle Palace had enough sense to have kept them or built new ones. And, of course, kept ADC.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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Post by Mark O on Apr 25, 2010 11:52:25 GMT 9
At Ubon I was under Robin Olds and Chappy James. While they were there the base was just like and ADC base. Lots of fun. I'm glad I left shortly after they did. Jim Too That's interesting that you said Ubon was like an ADC base under Robin Olds. I just finished reading his (his daughter's) book, and although he served in ADC, and according to the book, he sure didn't seem to think much of the mission of ADC. Guess he approved of the lifestyle though! That said, the book is one of the best reads I've picked up in some time. Well worth it. It essentially is his life story told in the first person. He wrote it all down, but his daughter is the one that put it a book after his death. Here's a link to it at Amazon if you can't find it at your local book seller. It's already selling used (I pre-oredered mine, and got it new) so the price is actually going down. It's still #1 in two categories on Amazon though! www.amazon.com/Fighter-Pilot-Memoirs-Legendary-Robin/dp/0312560230/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272163533&sr=8-1Mark
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Apr 25, 2010 23:38:52 GMT 9
Mark, I think the biggest influence on how Ubon was run under Olds and James, was Chappie. He was the one who pretty much ran things in the 8th TFW and Olds was the "Hero".
Wing commanders were to fly about 50 missions, all in the South or other "safe" areas. Not Robin Olds. He flew 152 missions, over 100 of them in the North.
He didn't have time for all the things a wing CO normally did, so Chappie, a long-time ADC guy, ran things.
Will have to get his book.
If you can find a copy of the book "Chappie", get it. There are some flaws in the book, but it pretty well examines Chappie's career.
Black Eagle, is another James bio, but I have not read it.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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Post by Jim on Apr 26, 2010 0:57:21 GMT 9
Back to the topic of Darts vs Vipers............ This from FLYPAPA when I fwd Pat's post to the Six and Viper drivers on my mailing list.. This verifies the Col's (BTW, all GOOD retired LCs become Colonel to me) narration.. Note FLYPAPPAS last sentence!! Jim - The Vari-Ramps respond to Mach Number only. It does not matter whether at full afterburner or idle. The P&W J-75 was a fantastic engine, idle to full AB in mere seconds, and very hard to damage. I have done the full cross-control maneuver and then maximum Gs many times. It can be disorienting to all involved, but it really waters their eyes. But, the timing is important. We were doing this maneuver in the 60s and 70s on a regular basis. Having been in ADC, USAFE, TAC, PACAF, and back to ADC, I agree with the writer. Many TAC pilots never could figure it out, and they got burned without knowing what happen. A few were very good, but TAC didn't allow very much DACT. Too busy learning how to drop bombs! I think the best in the game were the Navy Reserve F-8 Crusader Drivers, and I scheduled DACT with them when ever possible.. Thanks, AJK
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