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Post by Mark O on Apr 29, 2009 13:47:55 GMT 9
I read once that the USAF has had more uniform combinations and options since it became a seperate service in 1947 than the US Army has had in it's entire existance (1775). Well, I was searching for something completely unrelated but came across this site. I'd like to see some of your old USAF uniforms! www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5846Be sure to check out page 3 of this topic where it shows an old 27th FIS shirt and a 49th shirt. Pretty interesting. Mark Edit: Guess I should start with a current uniform! Me in the current Airman Battle Uniform. I rarely wear this as I'm usually in my flight suit!
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Apr 30, 2009 5:28:16 GMT 9
The officers with Eddie Rickenbacker are James Jabara an Ace from Korea and Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg. I wore most of those uniforms, including the Summer shorts. Jim
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Apr 30, 2009 7:50:29 GMT 9
I like the old work fatigues. Why do you need any camo to work on aircraft?
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
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Retired: USAF NBA: Spurs NFL: Niners MLB: Giants NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Apr 30, 2009 9:37:48 GMT 9
The site Mark sent is great. Brought back lots of memories. As I said before, I wore many of those old uniforms. The blues I got in February 1952 were all wool, heavy, and hot. They were hot Winter or Summer. They needed constant cleaning and pressing to keep them looking neat. The overcoat was also wool. Heavy and when you had to wear it in a drizzle or heavy fog, it felt like the thing weighed a ton. It, too, had to be dry-cleaned and never seemed to be without a crease someplace. We did have a pretty good rain coat. However, that was before Scotch Gard and after a while it began to lose it's rain shedding ability and you got wet if it rained very hard. Couldn't carry and umbrella in uniform, so the rain coat was it. I don't know why anyone liked the Ike jacket. It, too, was wool and because of the short waist and the built-in belt, it never felt comfortable. I didn't wear it unless I had to. The issue hat was also wool and in the early days we couldn't wear a rain cover that did any good. Later on I got a Flight Ace hat that was much better and we could wear the plastic cover. We were not allowed to take the grommet out the hat on base, so generally didn't bother. The "50 Mission Crush" was generally discouraged at training bases. The one-piece fatigues were designed by some pre-feminist mad woman. They had a belt sewn on, with a large stamped metal buckle that you threaded the loose part of the belt through and then tucked the loose end under to keep it from hanging loose. The front buttoned from the collar to the crotch and had a full-length flap over the buttons. It was made of heavy cotton that felt like canvas. If you needed to get them off in a hurry, like after eating the greasy eggs at the chow hall, well, let me tell you, it wasn't unbuckle, unbutton and drop. No, sir, it was unbutton from the neck down and unbuckle and then drop and hope you could get it done before it was too late and some changes had to be made. If you were out in the field and having to use a slit trench, that brought along other problems. If it was raining, you had to be very careful how you dropped 'em. If not, the sleeves and maybe the collar hit the mud, and whatever else was there. I guess I don't really need to give further explanation. On hot days you couldn't shed the top part and just have a T-shirt on top. Nope, you had to unbutton to the waist, roll the top part down, keeping the sleeves hanging free and then tie the whole thing together with the sleeves. Needless to say, it was a bother. You have no idea how happy us ramp rats were when we got our first two-piece fatigues in the mid to late fifties. There were still some wearing the one-piece in to the very early sixties. Depending on where you were, and the first shirt's disposition, you probably had to keep them starched and ironed. They never really looked great, but they had been around since the twenties, so guess someone thought they were good. The early two-piece were also cotton, but much more comfortable. We were allowed to have short sleeves and that made them more comfortable in the Summer. They had to be starched and ironed, as well, but were much nicer looking than the one-piece or the sage greens that followed. Jim :god_bless_usa
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Post by Jeff Shannon on Apr 30, 2009 22:04:07 GMT 9
I like the old work fatigues. Why do you need any camo to work on aircraft? Which ones the Cotton or Permanent press? I liked both depending on the weather of where I was stationed.
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on May 1, 2009 0:03:37 GMT 9
I liked the Permanent press. Easier to maintain. While stationed in southern California I wore white coveralls mostly during the summer as they were much cooler. We were required to have nametags and patches on them also. I got two new pair issued and all my stuff sowed on them and then washed them. Some one left something red in the barracks washing maching and when I loaded my coveralls I did not see it. When I went back down to get my coveralls after the wash was done my "new" coveralls were pink. I took them back to the shop next day to get new ones issued and I was almost laughed out of the shop. The shop chief said, "I'll issue you replacements but I should make you ware a set for the day while working the flightline." I'm sure glad he didn't. I had to buy new stripes, name tag, and USAF tag. But the squadron gave me two new 63rd MAW patches. Click on photo to enlarge
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Post by dude on May 1, 2009 11:20:57 GMT 9
I praised the day when the khakis went away. I was surprised to learn the other day that the dress "lid" isn't standard issue anymore. Just the flight cap. If you want one, you have to buy it yourself for $44.
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Post by Mark O on May 1, 2009 12:36:52 GMT 9
I praised the day when the khakis went away. I was surprised to learn the other day that the dress "lid" isn't standard issue anymore. Just the flight cap. If you want one, you have to buy it yourself for $44. I can't recall exactly what I paid for mine but the best story I have is when I went to one of our CMSgt's retirement ceremony and the uniform of the day was service dress. Since it wasn't a formation ceremony - it was at the club - I decided to wear my service cap. I walked into the club with my lid under my arm and was seated next to a SMSgt and a MSgt. (I was a SSgt at the time.) I placed my service cap under my seat as the SMSgt watched me, and started eyeballing my cap! After a few minutes he leaned over and whispered to me, "You know, those hats aren't authorized anymore." I whispered back, "Actually, they are. They're just optional for O-3's and below. It's in the AFI." Well, the MSgt on the other side of the SMSgt was my element leader and when the ceremony ended he pulled me to the side and TOLD me he wanted to see the AFI!! I bit my tongue, went back to the shop and looked it up for him. I printed the page off, gave it to him with out a word and went home. I never heard an apology. I wear my service cap every chance I get these days!! Mark
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Post by Bullhunter on May 2, 2009 0:15:22 GMT 9
Loved the short story Mark. Always nice when you can show the higher ups they don't know it all.
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Post by Jim on May 2, 2009 4:56:05 GMT 9
I wear my service cap every chance I get these days!!
Thanks Mark for insisting on wearing what use to be called "Garrison Hat" whenever possible.........What you call the flight cap use to be called the sevice cap or as we reffered to it , the C--t cap- not in mixed company, of course................ I too, remember the one piece fatiques and the endless hours spent spit shining the one pair of brown roughouts to resemble the one pair of black brogans we were issued!!!!! We would take and remove the stiches on the belt of the one piecers back to the side seams so we could tuck the excess matieral on our sides--- Made them look "tailored"......... We also had a fatique cap similar to what the Marines wear.....And we were taught how to fold it and put it in our pocket so that when you came out of a building you pulled it out and gave it snap on the way to your head..... In '57, I was coming out of the BX at Griffiss as one of our pilots was coming up the steps, I whipped out that hat, gave it a snap and saluted all in the same motion-- he started laughing because after 5 years of being folded the same way, the top of the hat broke at the folds and was hanging on the side of my face.......... He handed me his sqdn ball cap and said to get one at the orderly room, hence my intiation to the wearing of sqdn hats.... That modification of the belt also made it easy to carry a folded poncho while marching in basic at Sampson AFB- pure hell though when double time march was required.............. I liked the IKE jacket as it was a comfortable jacket to wear while traveling.....Travel other than POV was in uniform, lot of times good for a free cup of coffee and sometimes a piece of pie... Never did like the first 2 piece fatiques with only the 2 cargo pockets, wore one piece til they came out with regular pants........ had an episode with damned bush jacket and a captain CO at Amarillo for later.........I personally like the first blues I was issued in '52- including the overcoat in winter at Griffiss.........A story about that later as well... The Old Sarge
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Post by Mark O on May 2, 2009 10:36:08 GMT 9
I just had to double check AFI 36-2903 (you guys probably remember it as AFM 35-10!!) for the current names for the "hats" and sure enough, it's Service Cap and Flight Cap. I do remember when I first came in back in 1983 that we still used the term garrison cap and I remember the "c**t cap" use as well! I hadn't heard that in a long time! We used the term in the Army but I haven't heard it at all since I've been in the USAF. I did find something interesting in the AFI tonight though. I didn't know we aviators could wear the old style wings! I have definitely got to get me some wings like that!! If for no other reason than to wear them on Mondays and see how many guys tell me they aren't authorized anymore!! From Table 5.2, Note 8. 8. Only highly polished badges are worn. EXCEPTION: Oxidized/satin finished “Heritage wings” may be worn. Badges must be all regular or all midsize.BTW, this is a cool site with old USAF general officer uniforms. usafflagranks.com/index.htmlEnjoy! Mark :e7new (Select) (July 1st baby!!) P.S. I just opened up another window, went to Medals of America's web site and ordered some "traditional" wings! I love it! :yellow-beer
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Post by Jim on May 2, 2009 10:47:56 GMT 9
Mark, I have a set of 55 year old engineer wings (cross trained from a W to I believe it was H for single engine jet, so never got to wear them.........) BTW, whatnhell does the flt engineer's BADGE look like The Old Sarge
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Post by Mark O on May 2, 2009 11:03:40 GMT 9
Mark, I have a set of 55 year old engineer wings (cross trained from a W to I believe it was H for single engine jet, so never got to wear them.........) BTW, whatnhell does the flt engineer's BADGE look like The Old Sarge All enlisted aviators wear the same type of wings. Just like the one I show in my last post. Oh geeeez - all of us engineers sure wish we could wear the old-style FE wings!! There is no way in H-E-double-hockey-sticks the USAF will ever allow us to wear those again! However..... Our Chief asked us (the FE flight) if we wanted to get the old-style wings to wear on Fridays. HECK YES!!! We still haven't done it since most of our squadron is currently deployed but we will soon. For those that don't know, this is what the old-style Flight Engineer wings look like. I have a couple reproductions lying around and one set up above my work bench in the garage. Mark Now.... Then....
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Post by jimpadgett on May 12, 2009 23:10:34 GMT 9
I started out with 505s', wool blues (one Ike Jacket and one blouse) and sage green fatigues. The 505s and bush jacket were a pain (perma-wrinkle). I loved the Ike jacket because the blouse reminded me of a dress. Was receiving an award from the base commander at Chanute when I caught hell about the Ike jacket. Turned out that I never should have been issued it to start with (some supply toad at Lackland trying to get rid of surplus). For appearance, hey, spent my "life" in fatigues, I preferred Dacrons with a military crease in the shirt. Had to buy them myself, of course. The old blue wool topcoat (horse blanket) weighed more than I did after running my butt off in basic. Was only thankful for the horse blanket once. That was on a particularly cold morning at Chanute when we were told to wear it over the field jacket to march to school. What a sight. Perma-press never seemed to be perma-press when they came along. Or ever after for that matter. Much preferred the baseball caps during there time. Every fatigue cap I've seen looked nerdy. At Chanute they had us starch the sage green fatigue cap and stretch it over a butt can (one gallon can) to dry. One dog tag between bill and leading edge of the flat top. Won't go into the footlocker arrangement of socks and underwear stretched over 2X4 cardboard rectangles for display in the top tray. Oh, how I ramble on. You guys provoke such memories. Jim
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