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Post by dude on Mar 22, 2009 12:39:35 GMT 9
This isn't a memory. ITS REAL TIME!
Last week I found myself at Lackland AFB attending my son's graduation from Basic Training. They had open house in the dorms. Talk about a seriously bad dose of de ja vu. I was there in '73. The dorms haven't changed. The bunks and lockers are the same. Even the day room furniture is the same.
They still march around at 0 dark thirty with the little yellow cones on the flashlights. And that old F-82 still guards the parade ground.
The big difference? It's now 8 1/2 weeks and they are issued a training M-16 in the first week. With so many Airmen being deployed and embedded in Army groups they are a lot more serious on the physical training. They do a week "in the field" with full packs. Also, do the gas mask/chamber and IED training.
So I checked an old calendar and did a little math. Lo and behold with 6.5 weeks training in 1973 and 8.5 weeks of training in 2009, it turns out that my son and I both graduated BMT on March 16th.
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79tiger
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Post by 79tiger on Oct 14, 2009 7:11:33 GMT 9
After enduring 8 weeks of non-stop in-your-face by a Training Instructor that fancied himself, and claimed to be a US Marine that transferred to the Air Force, it was time to PCS to Tech School. This guy never broke a smile, yelled at all times, treated us like dogs, with never even a cold coke for eight weeks in the Lackland heat.
Okay, so we thankfully board the bus to Amarillo AFB and out of this S.O.B.s life forever, as he stands to watch us leave, and without even a good bye, eat crap or anything. And the bus driver says, "I know that TI, he's a real XXXXXXX, why don't you guys flip him the bird out the window as I pull out". "Yea! Yea! That's what we'll do the entire busload exclaimed". So the bus pulls out, the windows get pulled back and probably 30 hands flipped our TI the bird, and with a few explicitives thrown in. We thought we were so cool and our revenge would be sweet. Our TI, without hesitation snaped to attention and gave us probably the best military salute that possibly could be rendered. In that last moment he had honored us and recognized our achievements, and had also made us all feel like crap. He also made us realize, along with the help of a bus driver, that yes he had bonded us as men, but that our full maturity as people still needed some work. It was a great lesson in life that has directed me in my dealings with others for my entire life, and I thank him for it..
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Oct 14, 2009 8:08:16 GMT 9
:welcome
Welcome aboard 79tiger. Hope you enjoy your tour of duty in the Six Hanger and Flight Line.
Good story about basic. Sounds like your TI knew his job, even without a smile. Turning us boys in to men must have been a real task and one that gets little thanks.
Looking forward to more of your postings.
Jim Scanlon
:god_bless_usa
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Post by dude on Oct 14, 2009 10:37:20 GMT 9
 Sounds like there must have been safety in numbers. I remember being told in basic about the one Airman that decided to flip his TI off from the bus and found himself reset back to day one. Yikes! Interesting also, we had an Army cross-over that was the assistant TI. One night he sat us all down in the day room and showed us how to lay out our locker drawers. You know this up in the right corner, that down in the left, etc. Next day the inspection team came through. Locker #1 failed... Locker #2 failed. By the time they got to #3 they figured the pattern. Every drawer was layed out exactly 180 degrees out from what they should have been. :  Our Army TI had failed to take into account the fact that he was facing us and we were facing him. Two weeks later, he was gone. 
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Oct 23, 2009 3:04:16 GMT 9
Basic Training was so long-ago, yet I still remember some of the events that took place. Like the guy who challenged Sgt Horncoop to a fight. It was over in about 30 seconds and the good sergeant didn't even break a sweat. Don't suppose you could do that to-day.
I took Basic at Shepherd Field in February, March and April 1952. The base had officially become Shepherd Air Force Base, but everyone still called it Shepherd Field.
We were all privates. Yep, still used the Army rank system. There were 80 of us in our flight, all but a couple were from California. That cut down on the jokes many instructors used.
We lived in WW2, two-story barracks. They sat on concrete piers and were open all around the bottom. They were built to last through the war and then be taken down. Some were still standing in to the Eighties. Good value for the defense dollar.
Barracks life has probably changed a lot. Don't know if it is for the better.
We had to scrub the floors every week, using brown bars of soap, scrub brushes and buckets of hot water. My bunk was upstairs, so we had to be careful not to use too much water, or it would drip on the bunks on the first floor.
We had gallon cans hung on the upright beams that ran along the middle of the bay. There were two rows of beams, about 8 feet apart, both upstairs and down. They supported the second floor and the roof. The cans had a couple of inches of water in them, to drop your cigarette butts in. They had to be emptied, washed, fresh water put in and re-hung every day. Not the nicest job, but it had to be done.
The rafters were open, as were the inside walls. No sheet rock or paneling, just the beams and outer walls. Yes, the rafters had to be dusted. North Texas winds made that a weekly chore. Don't suppose the new barracks have that type of decor. Pity.
The latrine was wide open. The toilets sat against the interior wall, I think there were five of them. The sinks on the opposite wall, with a mirror above each sink. The shower room had, I think, 8 shower heads, and the walls were covered with metal. The shower room was wide-open, of course.
All of that meant lots of cleaning. I don't know if you ever saw the 1958 movie, No Time for Sergeants, starring Andy Griffith, but it dealt with basic in those years in a very funny way. One of the best scenes is when Griffith has latrine duty. You have to see it to enjoy it. The scene is on line.
Inspections were a way of life. Footlocker inspections were the ones we dreaded the most. If Sgt Horncoop or his corporal assistant, found anything out of place, the fun began. He would have you take the tray out of the footlocker and carry it through the barracks, stopping at every person and showing them your locker tray. If anyone were to snicker or laugh, they had to carry your tray, and theirs around the barracks and you walked behind them. I don't remember that happening more than a couple times.
Yes, Basic was different. But it did what it was intended to do. It took a bunch of dumb, young civilian teens and early twenties, young men and got them ready to become professional members of our Air Force. It worked then, harsh as it may seem to some, and I hope it is working to-day.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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Post by jimpadgett on Oct 23, 2009 22:54:46 GMT 9
Sounds like the barracks got moved to Lackland or were built to the same specs. In 1961 the ones at Lackland were WW2 two story, on piers, no sheet rock, no insulation, lap wood siding you could see daylight through, same wood floors and cleaning routine. No butt cans though. We weren't allowed to smoke for 4 weeks.
One day in formation, after chow, SSgt Catlin said, "Smoke 'em if you got 'em". Everyone was dumbfounded. One guy had 'em and quickly didn't. Got the dizzy feeling like a first timer. I should have quit when the time was right. The guy with the smokes was prior service and knew to keep them in his sock to prevent pocket bulge. Still not allowed to smoke in the barracks. Afraid of fire in those tinder boxes.
And there were the fire drills. Two or three AM were the preferred hours. You had better get out fast! But wrap a blanket around yourself first. Which brings to mind the bunks.
The dust cover and white collar. No rabbit ears poking through the springs. Try to get the bedding taunt enough to bounce a quarter. The second blanket folded into a cadet e at the foot of the white collar. Short sheeting was an art form. especially with the white collar.
The order of the foot locker, ugh! And the order and spacing of the hung clothes and shoes.
Yes, it was character building. I woundn't wish what we had to go through on anyone today, I do hope it is as effective now as it was then. Can you imagine air conditioning and rooms and no profanity and......??
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Oct 24, 2009 3:05:33 GMT 9
Jim, It was about the same for me in July & August 1971.
Old WWII barracks hot as heck and only one big washer and dryer.
I had KP duty then also.
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Post by daoleguy A.J. Hoehn (deceased) on Oct 24, 2009 4:44:06 GMT 9
DAMN! A washer and dryer. Luxury suite Bull.
AJ
EDIT: Anyone remember P-23 at Chanute and the two-bus sized clippers?
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Post by dude on Oct 24, 2009 5:47:02 GMT 9
Yes, Basic was different. But it did what it was intended to do. It took a bunch of dumb, young civilian teens and early twenties, young men and got them ready to become professional members of our Air Force. It worked then, harsh as it may seem to some, and I hope it is working to-day. Oh it's working and then some. The two additional weeks are for extended physical training, a full week in the field living in tents, additional instruction on things like how to spot an IED. I was just at Ellsworth visiting my son. His next door neighbor is just coming up on 4 years in and had just finished his 3rd rotation to OEF. Puts a whole new spin on the ball for basic training. |
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Post by Bullhunter on Oct 24, 2009 9:25:33 GMT 9
Now that you mention IED training. Hunting season before last my buddies and I were elk, deer, & bear hunting. I walked out of the forest early and hit the road. Covered up in the ditch was an old rusted spray can of bug repellent. Knowing that my buddies would soon be driving down the old logging road I doug out the can and set it up-right in the middle of the road. It was only maybe 5 inches high. Plenty of clearence for a 4 by 4 truck to drive over. My buddy driving his truch has been to the gulf and had that IED training. They met me back at camp and asked if I put the can in the road. I laughed and said yes. They explained that it wasn't there when we drove up so when we drove down we stopped thing "IED". According to them they spent several minutes visual inspecting it. :  After the story telling the can made it into our trash bag. I just love hunting trips with a few pranks. |
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Post by Mark O on Oct 24, 2009 13:29:45 GMT 9
Honestly, I'm glad I didn't go to Lackland - US Army Basic Training for me was at Ft. Leonard Wood, MO from Feb.-April 1983. We started at the reception center living in those WWII barracks (open bay, no doors on the crappers, about the same as you all described them!), then moved to more modern barracks for actual training.
BTW, why did the USAF start calling barracks "dorms"? Dorms are for colleges. Barracks are what military men live in.
Anyway, this was in 1983 remember. We could smoke outside, and only when the Drill Sergeant (not a "TI") told you to "smoke 'em if you got 'em", and since most of our Drill Sergeants smoked, that was never a problem. I didn't smoke then though! It was just a free break for us non-smokers!
We even got a pass the first Saturday we were there. The Senior Drill Sergeant told us he was giving us the pass, but it would be the last one we got while we were there. His reason was we wouldn't bitch about not getting one later on in training. Well, we got a pass EVERY weekend in Basic! One particular Monday night we were all in the barracks and the Drill Sergeant on duty started screaming at us to get outside in formation in five minutes, and three of those minutes were already gone! We made it! He then marched us all across the street to the shopette/snack bar, he sat down at a pinball machine, lit a cigarette, and told us we had one hour. Well. a few guys bought a bar of soap, or a new pair of socks, (or whatever) then we went into the attached snack bar to wait it out. They served beer there and the drinking age was not an issue even in 1983 on military installations. One guy summoned the courage to ask the Drill Sergeant if we could have a beer. Through the ever present cigarette in his lips, HE SAID YES!! Game on!! (We didn't actually say game on back then!) I think most of us managed to drink at least two, but I know a few guys had more. On a Monday night, in Basic Training.
That would never happen now. No one would even consider the possibility.
Oh yea, we had real M-16A1s the whole time. No one ever got shot either. Amazing.
Mark
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Post by jimpadgett on Oct 25, 2009 1:52:45 GMT 9
Well! More cobwebs partially cleared. May-Jul 1961. We had 6 weeks at Lackland. Remember the weapon was the M1 Carbine. Loved the thing and have two sportsterized versions of it now. Nobody got shot, but one guy got taken down hard by the range SGT when he stood up and started waving the weapon around. We got a weekend pass to got to San Antonio once. That's when we got our "hero" picture taken (Dress Blues hat and flight jacket w/turned up collar). We had two more weeks of basic at Chanute after we had PATS (personnel awaiting training status) consisting of sh*t details and KP) for I don't remember how long. Then "school KP" for a week. If P-23 was the school chow hall, I remember it well. My school KP was at the foreign students' chow hall somewhere beyond the B-36 toward the hospital on the left. Then six months of school. Second phase of basic was afternoon military subject's classes and drill. Never did understand the "dorm" or "dining hall" thing. More cobwebs: can't remember how my laundry got done in basic. Think it must have been bundle service at the base laundry. Do remember the starch being so heavily in the sage greens that you had to ram your arm/leg through them to get them open. There were washers and dryers in the barracks at Chanute and it was d*mn competetive getting use of them. More when more cobwebs clear.
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Post by steve201 (deceased) on Oct 25, 2009 10:51:05 GMT 9
HAHA...jim...yours sounds similar to my time at Lackland...the old wooden dorms aka barracks were supposed to have been torn down...I went there in december of 70....
I remember when we got there at 2am...I attempted to look and feel my best...I was about as hung over as one could get......we flew in from louisville Ky and I had partied like there was no tomorrow the nite before.....after the initial screaming and yelling...then herding us into the hall to take our oath...we got marched out to our DI's...who loaded us onto our busses....we were in the back of the bus while the new waf's were in the front....as the women got off in front of thier barrack...our di told the bus driver to hold...then he stood up and quietly said...you pukes listen up...don't say a word...don't laugh or make a noise....just listen...
meanwhile the female DI started in with "listen up ladies!!!...when I tell you to stand at attention....I wanna hear 31 pu##ies slam shut.....and when I say at ease...I wanna hear 31 pu$$ies suck air!!!"....then the bus driver pulled away....after we made the corner we couldn't contain it any longer.....we were all screaming with laughter......oh my god I'd never heard anything so funny in my life!!....our DI we thought was crazy...always yelling at us...pulling gig slips for stupid things.....
I remember us marching over to the new section for chow...standing heel to toe waiting to get in to eat...
then went to classes for military law and such....first aid classes on the dummies...finally marching forever for our turn at kp...we went to the waf sqdn and let me tell you..an 18 yr old with all those women ..while serving them food and wiping the drool off my chin....it was rough......
weapons training was with the M16...interesting..I actually was able to make marksmen......I'd been shooting since I could remember..the m16 just felt natural to shoot...
one kid forgot where he was and started getting distracted ...pointed the weapon away from the down range .....all 6 DI's drew down on this kid and made him lower his weapon...then yanked him away from the line and proceeded to yell at him smokey bear hat brim right to his forehead.....we were amazed.....he got the message..
after we got our orders for tech school....it was an easy day or two..we just marched around and did the final few days with no issues....
After I got out of Basic....I was stationed in sheppard afb....one saturday I went to the base theater to watch full metal jacket...wouldn't you know....my DI in basic looked exactly like R.Lee Ermy..Marine gunny Sgt....scared the crap out of me!!...same yell...same look...bout the same age and demeaner...
Steve
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Post by Bullhunter on Oct 25, 2009 17:54:48 GMT 9
steve201,,,,,that is just too funny. AJ said: All our under ware and uniforms were marked with ink stamps. But the socks were all thrown together and washed. Then handed back. If you had 4 pairs washed you got 4 pairs back and they were not likely your previous pair. I used to see kids scratching and rubbing there feet. Blisters, fungas, and who knows what. Always wondered whos feet were in these socks last. |
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Post by dude on Nov 3, 2009 12:41:04 GMT 9
That must have been a favorite lady TI line because we heard the same thing at a Retreat when a flight of ladies came marching in, halted and hit parade rest not to the satisfaction of the TI. She snapped them back to attention and then gave them the immortal "sucking air" line. After retreat as they were marching out ahead of us, the TI evidently didn't like the way they were marching and ordered "Flight Halt" just as we were bearing down on them from behind. Our TI didn't even hesitate, he ordered a "half right" then a "half left" and we marched right through em splitting the ranks. Of course several of our group couldn't resist the temptation of making a sucking sound as we went through. 
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Post by lugnuts55 on Nov 3, 2009 22:07:32 GMT 9
I went through basic training in November '69 but I was fortunate to be in the "new dorms". The old WWII barracks were across the street and I remember thinking how lucky I was not being over there. We had a a washer and dryer, maybe two, I dont know because I never had laundry detail. I do remember getting my laundry back and was folding a t-shirt when I found holes diagonally upward across the front and back. One of the guys asked me if I was hit with a machine gun. I found out that the wash machine was filled to the top and bleach was poured in. Either the water hadn't gotten there yet or there was just too much laundry in the machine that the water was never going to get there. I had to buy another shirt as did a couple other guys. It was the first time any of us had to do our own laundry so we were all learning things besides how to march.
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Post by Bullhunter on Nov 4, 2009 2:59:54 GMT 9
Lugnuts55, I went through basic two years after you. I was in one of the WWII Barracks.
Our barracks had one large front load washer and the same size dryer. Both were about 7 foot tall.
I do not recall any laundry problems.
It was July and August when I was there and I was glad I did not have laundry detail. That room was like an oven when those things were in operation.
I lucked out and had an easy detail and that was "road-guard".
Of course I had on day of KP, one day of Dorm Security Guard, and two or the evening shifts of Fire Guard.
I think most everyone pulled Dorm Security & Fire Guard at least once.
For me, I found basic to be like a camping trip. I grew up on a dairy farm so work and long walks were nothing new. I found PT fairly easy as all past summers I threw bales of hay around and carried pales of milk.
Only once did I feel real stress during basic and that was during Dorm Security. The flight was gone and I was alone. The squadron CO came to the door and wanted in. I went down the access list and his name was not on it. I refused him entry. He kicked the door and pounded on it with his fist yelling he was the commander and an Air Force Officer and this was an Air Force building. His rant lasted maybe 5 or 6 minutes but it felt like hours.
When the flight returned at the end of the day the TI asked if I had let in the Commander. I answered, "Sir, No he was not on the list, Sir".
He smiled and said, "Good".
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Post by dude on Nov 4, 2009 5:28:18 GMT 9
I think I mentioned before that we had won a parade mid-way through basic and that made us the little darlins of the sqaudron or whatever. This translated into some nifty duty assignments. One was parade monitor. Myself and four others were assigned to a TSgt for a parade, so off we go to the field. As he's driving the TSgt explains that each of us is to carry a red flag and be positioned in pairs around the field behind the masses. If we see anyone drop, we're to run to them with our flag up so the ambulance can see us. Make them comfortable, etc. So he drops off the first three pairs and then he and I take up the last position, which just happens to be behind the only two masses of WAFs on the field. Well we're standing there awhile and all of a sudden a young lady airman keels over and hits the ground. I go running towards her waving my flag like crazy with the TSgt no more than a couple steps behind. I've almost reached her when I hear the Tsgt, "Airman, put that @#$% flag down and stand aside." So I did. The first thing he does is check her pulse. Evidently she had one. The next thing I know he's loosening her skirt. Then he says, "She needs air." Soooo... I now observe him as he kneels at her feet, picks both her legs up at the ankles to eye level and starts pumping them in and out like a bellows. "Uh sir, aren't you suppose to do mouth to mouth or something?" "She's breathing ok. She just needs ventilation." "Yeah right. Ok if I wave my little flag now?" "If you must."
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Post by lugnuts55 on Nov 4, 2009 7:17:09 GMT 9
I got to Lackland on 7 Nov 69. We had KP on 11 Nov, Thanksgiving and Christmas '69 with one other one thrown in for good measure. The only good thing about it was that I happened to trim my fingernails the night before the first time. Our hands were inspected and I was pulled out of line. I was one selected to work the serving line. No pots & pans, no peeling potatoes. We had to clean the steam tables, wash the tables and chairs, and mop the floors. It was all work so I don't know who got the easier jobs but I always trimmed my nails before KP after that. Those 18 hour days were killer.
There was a bit of humanity shown to us by the families of the permanent party people, though. They were allowed to bring their families in for the holiday dinner and they were nice to us. All the other times, we were lower than snail snot.
When I joined the reserve in 1981, I had tech school at Lackland for 10 weeks. I was a Staff at the time and we lived in a dorm a couple blocks from the basic training area. Anyone with stripes was treated respectfully and whenever a basic would hold a door for me or do something courteous, I made it a point to acknowledge his or her actions with a smile. I hoped it made them feel better about their situation.
Dude, parade monitor sounds like good duty. I didn't know they had such a thing. I did see a couple guys hit the asphalt during the awarding of the medals but since we were at attention, I didn't dare turn my head to see what happened to them. I do remember someone showing up to take them out of formation. This also happened at Shepard AFB.
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Post by lugnuts55 on Nov 21, 2009 22:56:27 GMT 9
I was in Sq 3711 Flt 1771
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Sounds like there must have been safety in numbers. I remember being told in basic about the one Airman that decided to flip his TI off from the bus and found himself reset back to day one. Yikes!
