MOW
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Retired: USAF, Civil Service
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Post by MOW on Mar 27, 2017 17:16:53 GMT 9
After the cart start TCTO we did, I know of two ways to get the engine started. Was there a third? Someone on Facebook thinks so, but to the best of my knowledge the air flasks could not start the engine.
Thoughts?
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Post by pat perry on Mar 27, 2017 20:53:30 GMT 9
After the cart start TCTO we did, I know of two ways to get the engine started. Was there a third? Someone on Facebook thinks so, but to the best of my knowledge the air flasks could not start the engine.
Thoughts?
See T.O. 1F-106A-2-1 General Airplane on the main site. www.f-106deltadart.com/manuals_documents.htm T.O. page 4-10 (PDF page 70) Combustion starter pneumatic system, and T.O. page 5-7 (PDF page 80) Starting and Ignition systems, see also T.O. Page 4-6 (PDF page 66) High pressure pneumatic supply system
Two ways to start F-106 using combustion starter: 1- With high pressure air from ground unit 2- With high pressure air from internal 3000 PSI air flasks
The only 3rd way of starting an engine is ram air restart in flight if engine flamed out. I don't think the F-106 ever had a smoke-billowing cartridge start like the B-57 or electric starter like some fighter aircraft.
Thanks, Pat P.
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Post by Jim on Mar 27, 2017 23:22:41 GMT 9
After the cart start TCTO we did, I know of two ways to get the engine started. Was there a third? Someone on Facebook thinks so, but to the best of my knowledge the air flasks could not start the engine.
Thoughts?
See T.O. 1F-106A-2-1 General Airplane on the main site. www.f-106deltadart.com/manuals_documents.htm T.O. page 4-10 (PDF page 70) Combustion starter pneumatic system, and T.O. page 5-7 (PDF page 80) Starting and Ignition systems, see also T.O. Page 4-6 (PDF page 66) High pressure pneumatic supply system
Two ways to start F-106 using combustion starter: 1- With high pressure air from ground unit 2- With high pressure air from internal 3000 PSI air flasks
The only 3rd way of starting an engine is ram air restart in flight if engine flamed out. I don't think the F-106 ever had a smoke-billowing cartridge start like the B-57 or electric starter like some fighter aircraft.
Thanks, Pat P.
That cart start mod had to have been long after I left Loring in 63
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 28, 2017 2:35:40 GMT 9
After the cart start TCTO we did, I know of two ways to get the engine started. Was there a third? Someone on Facebook thinks so, but to the best of my knowledge the air flasks could not start the engine.
Thoughts?
While not an F-106, but the C-130 had various methods of starting engine. The typical is using ground power to start one engine then use that engine to start remaining. But one procedure is when starter malfunctions and you have a buddy C-130 nearby. The good A/C backs up in front of bad engine bird and cranks up all engines sending lots of air over other C-130. The moving airstream allows props to start to rotate and engine start can be accomplished. One night while at McChord I was flying on missions with my Lead C-130 Simulator Instructor pilot, also OIC of Training Flight. We did several short field (unprepared field) assault field T/O and Landing. At McChord we used grass between runway and taxiway. They would shut off airfield lights and light up two lights at each end of grass strip. As I remember it was about 2,000' So it was slam it onto deck with engines in reverse about 4-5 feet off grass and do max short field procedures. T/O was hold brakes with max pitch and after A/C began to shutter release brakes and hold nose down to get max speed then pull back on stick and after lift off, lower nose to maintain flight. Needless to say it was scary. Mark should be able to describe the feelings. Well that night there were about 4-5 planes doing the procedures as all A/C members had to be qualified and the base didn't like shutting off lighting too often. That night they were swapping A/Cs and during that time they would shut down left side engines to safely allow for crew swap. Well one A/C couldn't get engine starter to work, so they did the Buddy Start procedure. That's a kool procedure to watch. In case anyone was wondering, many Flight Sim folks had to be Stan/Eval qualified to operate Sim missions without Instructor Pilot available. We were Console Certified to Run Mission including Emergency Procedures and sigh off on Basic Mission Profiles. On the F-111E and F-4 it was strictly Sim Certification, but on C-130/C-141/C-5 /C-17 the Stan/Eval Training/Certs included Mission Flights on annual basis. We also could operate one seat if Pilot/WSO was not available and crew member needed refresher training. So many times I flew Sim while WSO/GIB operated his systems. We also had our peers who fixed/operated WSO Controls to operate WSO system while Pilot flew his refresher missions. Looking back on it, being in Flight Simulation field was a lot of fun. While at McChord I got a lot of flightt time in C-130 Sim during installation and Test of new C-130 Sim/Visual Systems during Acceptance Testing. Then at WPAFB I was Lead Test Director for all C-130 Sim Acceptance testing so I got even more Stick time during Modifications working with Singer Link Engineers.
Lorin
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Post by Mark O on Mar 29, 2017 9:43:49 GMT 9
After the cart start TCTO we did, I know of two ways to get the engine started. Was there a third? Someone on Facebook thinks so, but to the best of my knowledge the air flasks could not start the engine.
Thoughts?
While not an F-106, but the C-130 had various methods of starting engine. The typical is using ground power to start one engine then use that engine to start remaining. But one procedure is when starter malfunctions and you have a buddy C-130 nearby. The good A/C backs up in front of bad engine bird and cranks up all engines sending lots of air over other C-130. The moving airstream allows props to start to rotate and engine start can be accomplished. One night while at McChord I was flying on missions with my Lead C-130 Simulator Instructor pilot, also OIC of Training Flight. We did several short field (unprepared field) assault field T/O and Landing. At McChord we used grass between runway and taxiway. They would shut off airfield lights and light up two lights at each end of grass strip. As I remember it was about 2,000' So it was slam it onto deck with engines in reverse about 4-5 feet off grass and do max short field procedures. T/O was hold brakes with max pitch and after A/C began to shutter release brakes and hold nose down to get max speed then pull back on stick and after lift off, lower nose to maintain flight. Needless to say it was scary. Mark should be able to describe the feelings. Well that night there were about 4-5 planes doing the procedures as all A/C members had to be qualified and the base didn't like shutting off lighting too often. That night they were swapping A/Cs and during that time they would shut down left side engines to safely allow for crew swap. Well one A/C couldn't get engine starter to work, so they did the Buddy Start procedure. That's a kool procedure to watch. In case anyone was wondering, many Flight Sim folks had to be Stan/Eval qualified to operate Sim missions without Instructor Pilot available. We were Console Certified to Run Mission including Emergency Procedures and sigh off on Basic Mission Profiles. On the F-111E and F-4 it was strictly Sim Certification, but on C-130/C-141/C-5 /C-17 the Stan/Eval Training/Certs included Mission Flights on annual basis. We also could operate one seat if Pilot/WSO was not available and crew member needed refresher training. So many times I flew Sim while WSO/GIB operated his systems. We also had our peers who fixed/operated WSO Controls to operate WSO system while Pilot flew his refresher missions. Looking back on it, being in Flight Simulation field was a lot of fun. While at McChord I got a lot of flightt time in C-130 Sim during installation and Test of new C-130 Sim/Visual Systems during Acceptance Testing. Then at WPAFB I was Lead Test Director for all C-130 Sim Acceptance testing so I got even more Stick time during Modifications working with Singer Link Engineers.
Lorin
We would "practice" buddy starts, and taxi starts all the time -- in the simulator only. Never actually performed either, or even saw it done. We had several procedures to fix the aircraft without crew chief support if necessary, but had to get permission to do them. A sheared starter shaft seemed to be a common problem, and was easiy remedied using those procedures, but I never saw anyone get permission to do so. Even in the so-called combat zones of the middle east. They always flew maintainers in to fix us. No, I don't know why. Mark O
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Durden
F-106 Qualified
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Post by Durden on May 21, 2017 1:44:01 GMT 9
Before the cart start, you could do a pneumatic start without starter combustion but the 2-4 says to do it only with external air and only if the combustion start fails. Internal air might start the engine in an emergency but you would deplete the air flasks. At McClellan, we turned off the starter ignition and did a pneumatic engine rotation prior to the first engine run to make sure the engine rotated freely and had no abnormal sounds. You can hear the engine better without the combustion noise.
I don't believe the engine ever had a hand crank.
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Post by oswald on Jun 4, 2017 21:30:14 GMT 9
I agree with Durden. That was the ways of start-ups I couldn't recall how to put in words but his answer rang a bell in my memory and I was one person who did those start-ups occasionally. We also ran back to bleed the starters fuel supply after a false start.
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burnsracing
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Post by burnsracing on Jan 24, 2018 11:14:45 GMT 9
Possibly an air start after a flameout while flying. I had my run up license at Dover, Del
in the 95th FIS 67' & 68' prior to transfer to F4-c in Cam Ranh Bay, Viet Nam Richard Burns, Titusville, Fl.
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Bullhunter
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318th FIS Jet Shop 1975-78
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Post by Bullhunter on Jan 24, 2018 21:35:24 GMT 9
Use the CHECK LIST ! That's the way.
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