soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 5, 2009 6:44:23 GMT 9
Gentlemen:
I'm researching the Hughes Falcon missile with the intent of producing a history of the family. I found this forum and figured you guys might be able to answer some of my questions so far.
1. How long did the F-106 use the AIM-4E? Was it fully replaced by the AIM-4F, or did it still see use with the AIM-4G? Were four of them ever carried?
2. I've gotten information on an AIM-26 test program. Apparently they were trialled under the wing of the F-106 using the AIM-97's pylon. Anything to corroborate this info?
3. Were there separate WSEMs for the IR and radar Falcons?
4. Did the Six ever carry any Falcons besides the E F and G models?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 5, 2009 15:19:42 GMT 9
Gentlemen: I'm researching the Hughes Falcon missile with the intent of producing a history of the family. I found this forum and figured you guys might be able to answer some of my questions so far. 1. How long did the F-106 use the AIM-4E? Was it fully replaced by the AIM-4F, or did it still see use with the AIM-4G? Were four of them ever carried? 2. I've gotten information on an AIM-26 test program. Apparently they were trialled under the wing of the F-106 using the AIM-97's pylon. Anything to corroborate this info? 3. Were there separate WSEMs for the IR and radar Falcons? 4. Did the Six ever carry any Falcons besides the E F and G models? Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'll give it a shot, although some of the older heads may have better input. 1. Probably not much past 1960. Most likely scenario would have been a 100% swap out as the new 4Fs were produced and delivered to the squadrons. So it depends on the production quantities Hughes could put out over time. I believe the residual 4Es went to F-102 outfits. Technically there's nothing in the system design I'm aware of that would have prevented carrying 4 radar (or IR) missiles although I don't know why someone would want to do that. I beleive to fire that kind of configuration, the pilot would have to select "ALL" on his armament control panel. The Six shot in pairs, so this selection would have resulted in launching four missiles at one target. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 2. You might be thinking of F-102's. The only modification to a pylon on a production F-106 I'm aware of was to carry an ACMI pod. If it was tried on a Six, it was probably experimental on one aircarft at a test range, e.g. Edwards. 3. No. The WSEM was just a recorder. What ever missile was selected, the corresponding signals were sent down to the rail and got recorded on the WSEM tape. 4. Don't know of any. :patriotic-flagwaver
|
|
|
Post by falconkeeper on Nov 5, 2009 23:52:57 GMT 9
1. I was a missile troop from 1969 to 1985. When I went to tech school at Lowry AFB, the ADC side of the school only had 4Fs and 4Gs for testing, so the change was before then. 2. I don't think the Six was capable of carrying any external weapons. There was no wiring for them in the wings. 3. The WSEM was a radar evaluation missile. The only IR evaluator that I know of was for the AIM-4D, used on the F-4. The WSEM used light sensitive paper tape (it had to be developed by a machine after the tape was exposed in the WSEM) that had on/off channels for the parameters that were set and analog channels that used tiny mirrors inside very small coils of wire reacting against the permanent magnet to send a light trace on the tape. I can give you more info if you PM me. 4. The Six was specifically made to only carry the 4E, 4F, and 4G. At the end of it's life, USAF was trying to find some way for the Six to carry a more modern missile, due the the advantage it had in speed to target (until the F-15 FAST packs, the Six had the only supersonic rated drop tanks in the inventory, according to the top missile NCO at ADC). The major drawback of the Six was that the missiles did not have the legs or the knockout power of the AIM-9 or AIM-7. Again, I would love to help you on this project. I spent 5 years at 5FIS and 4 years as an FTD instructor on the AIM-4 at Tyndall. I love this missile, for all it's drawbacks.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 6, 2009 4:41:11 GMT 9
I have to modify my response to #1 above. The Six had a rapid refire capability and if the same type missile was loaded in both bays the pilot could select the missile type (RAD or IR). On first trigger the first pair would fire. He would then have a hot trigger meaning there was no need to recycle the armament. On the second trigger the second pair would fire. Course if he did select All, then all four would sequence on the first trigger. :fire_missle_ani
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 6, 2009 5:09:46 GMT 9
Good stuff. Why would they want to carry four radar missiles? Conceivably there could have been a time period where only the AIM-4E was available for the F-106. I haven't dug into the timelines enough to consider that yet, but it is why I asked the question.
The AIM-26 program was a test effort, not an operational fit.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 6, 2009 7:31:09 GMT 9
Maybe or it could simply have been the anticipated intercept. The IR missiles of that time were pretty much tail chasers (pursuit intercept) while the radars would have been the missile of choice for greater aspect angles (lead collision). Re: WSEM. When we would do a 4G live fire, they would hang a single 4G on one rail and a WSEM on the companion rail. Presumably to show more than just the load, because the tape plus the A51A data off the computer was downloaded and evaluated to qualify the rail. At Tell '78 my plane had a request for a refly denied when the 4G failed to stay with a Firebee through a 4g turn. The request got killed because the WSEM tape had been inadvertently exposed when the maintenance troop downloaded it.
|
|
Gian Vito
F-106 Qualified
Airman first class in the '90 (2nd wing, italian air force)
Currently: Offline
Posts: 30
Location:
Joined: September 2007
|
Post by Gian Vito on Nov 7, 2009 3:40:46 GMT 9
If you are searching for something special about the AIM-4 Falcon, look at this: www.alternatewars.com/SAC/Search for "AIM-4","Gar-1"and so on...You'll find some interesting and "confidential"data.
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 9, 2009 16:54:38 GMT 9
I've seen all of Ryan's documents...I'm due to try and hit the USAF Museum archives soon myself to try and get the SMC sheets for the GAR-9/AIM-47 and AGM-76.
Thanks for the input so far guys, it helps a lot!
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 16, 2009 3:44:15 GMT 9
Here's one you guys might have some knowledge of given your experience, even if it isn't Six related: anybody know which Falcon variants the Greeks and Turks got for their F-102s?
|
|
missleman
New to the Flightline
Currently: Offline
Posts: 3
Location:
Joined: July 2010
|
Post by missleman on Jul 10, 2010 4:09:58 GMT 9
I am an old missile troop (1961-1965) tech school at Lowry AFB, 1st assignment at Tyndall AFB, then Keflavik Iceland, Harmon AFB Newfoundland, Goose Bay Labrador & Suffolk County AFB NY. I am a member of the 59th Fighter Sqdn Assoc. and am making 1/5 scale models of the various models of Falcon missiles out of aluminum. I am looking for details of the launcher rails of the F-89, F-101, F-102 & F-106 that can be used to make an accurate display. If anyone can help locate pics or drawings I would be grateful. FYI, the 59th FIS is having a big reunion Sep 29th - Oct 2nd 2010 in Colorado Springs, membership is open to anyone assigned to the unit. check out the website www.59thfis.org
|
|
MOW
Administrator
Owner/Operator
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,821
Location:
Joined: September 2003
Retired: USAF, Civil Service
|
Post by MOW on Jul 10, 2010 19:12:48 GMT 9
I am an old missile troop (1961-1965) tech school at Lowry AFB, 1st assignment at Tyndall AFB, then Keflavik Iceland, Harmon AFB Newfoundland, Goose Bay Labrador & Suffolk County AFB NY. I am a member of the 59th Fighter Sqdn Assoc. and am making 1/5 scale models of the various models of Falcon missiles out of aluminum. I am looking for details of the launcher rails of the F-89, F-101, F-102 & F-106 that can be used to make an accurate display. If anyone can help locate pics or drawings I would be grateful. FYI, the 59th FIS is having a big reunion Sep 29th - Oct 2nd 2010 in Colorado Springs, membership is open to anyone assigned to the unit. check out the website www.59thfis.org :welcome missleman here's an avatar for you :2thumbsup
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 4, 2010 11:05:44 GMT 9
am making 1/5 scale models of the various models of Falcon missiles out of aluminum. I am looking for details of the launcher rails of the F-89, F-101, F-102 & F-106 that can be used to make an accurate display. If anyone can help locate pics or drawings I would be grateful. Missleman, if you send me your e-mail in a PM, I've got a drawing I did for my Falcon project showing scale views of the GAR-1, GAR-1D, GAR-2, GAR-3, GAR-3A, GAR-4, GAR-4A, GAR-11A, GAR-9, and AGM-76. Might have some photos of the F-102 and F-106 that I've taken at the USAF Museum that you may find useful as well!
|
|
victoralert
F-106 Qualified
Currently: Offline
Posts: 17
Location:
Joined: September 2010
|
Post by victoralert on Nov 9, 2010 2:32:43 GMT 9
am making 1/5 scale models of the various models of Falcon missiles out of aluminum. I am looking for details of the launcher rails of the F-89, F-101, F-102 & F-106 that can be used to make an accurate display. If anyone can help locate pics or drawings I would be grateful. Missleman, if you send me your e-mail in a PM, I've got a drawing I did for my Falcon project showing scale views of the GAR-1, GAR-1D, GAR-2, GAR-3, GAR-3A, GAR-4, GAR-4A, GAR-11A, GAR-9, and AGM-76. Might have some photos of the F-102 and F-106 that I've taken at the USAF Museum that you may find useful as well! soc, have the interest in the special arming. May I also receive these photos?
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 10, 2010 1:35:52 GMT 9
What do you mean by special arming? PM me your e-mail and let me know what you're looking for and I'll send you some photos.
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 10, 2010 1:42:38 GMT 9
Here's another question for you guys. GAR-3/AIM-4E was the first SARH Falcon for the F-106, this we know. There was also an IR version of the same missile, called the GAR-4. GAR-4A is the Super Falcon normally associated with the F-106, it has the same wing extensions, warhead, and motor as the GAR-3A (GAR-3 had a two-thrust motor, but it was different). The IR GAR-4 lacked the GAR-4A's wing extensions, and did not have the white moistureproof sleeve over the forward fuselage found on the -3A and -4A. There's a photo of an F-106B carrying four of them on page 75 of Wings of Fame Volume 12, and separate USAF SMC/CS documents for the IR GAR-4. Photo was taken in 1966; were these widely used or were they replaced like the GAR-3/AIM-4E?
|
|
missleman
New to the Flightline
Currently: Offline
Posts: 3
Location:
Joined: July 2010
|
Post by missleman on Nov 10, 2010 10:25:55 GMT 9
Any chance you are talking about the AIM 7? this was carried on wing pylons by F4's in Vietnam and had a poor kill record. I have contacted a buddy who was at Udorn for info and will relay it to you. missleman
|
|
missleman
New to the Flightline
Currently: Offline
Posts: 3
Location:
Joined: July 2010
|
Post by missleman on Nov 10, 2010 11:25:31 GMT 9
Re last post: I mispoke, I actually meant AIM-4D, not AIM 7
I have all this info in my memory bank ,but it is the retrieval that causes the problem
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Nov 10, 2010 13:42:52 GMT 9
Definitely not AIM-4Ds. Pretty sure I've never seen that image on the web or I'd link to it, but the Six is armed with four GAR-4s.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 19, 2010 13:03:18 GMT 9
Any chance you are talking about the AIM 7? this was carried on wing pylons by F4's in Vietnam and had a poor kill record. AIM-7s were carried in the 4 missile recesses on the fuselage. AIM-9s were carried on the wings. The poor kill record of the F-4C/Ds had a lot more to do with a design flaw in the aircraft fire control than the missile.
|
|
soc
F-106 Skilled
Currently: Offline
Posts: 106
Location:
Joined: November 2009
|
Post by soc on Apr 4, 2011 15:34:34 GMT 9
Gentlemen, thanks for all of the assistance. I have just completed work on the 84-page Falcon missile history. If you come across anything amusing in the future, don't hesitate to send it my way. There are a lot of things I still want to research, so a revised edition is definitely in the cards. Hopefully it doesn't take another decade to produce!
|
|