Bullhunter
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318th FIS Jet Shop 1975-78
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Post by Bullhunter on May 15, 2010 11:52:35 GMT 9
Really no place to put a flight-engineer on a B-52. Its so packed with black boxes and other stuff. As for the KC-135. Pilots, co=pilot, Nav, and boomer was it. Four simple J-57 engines.
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sdicken
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Post by sdicken on Apr 28, 2012 17:59:20 GMT 9
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Post by pat perry on Apr 29, 2012 2:51:10 GMT 9
Hi sdicken, Welcome to the hangar - glad you found us. Tell us about your time in the USAF and what hobbies you enjoy. And we love pictures of aircraft if you have some to share. Pat P. :2thumbsup
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Post by LBer1568 on Apr 29, 2012 3:56:54 GMT 9
Back in the mid-late 1960's all the experienced Crew Chiefs were getting tapped for Viet Nam. Since MA-1 was a stateside only (Not counting TDY to Korea) and since we were main reason for a lot of ground runs, a lot of us got Run-up/Taxi qualified. We spent a few hours in class room, a few trips to simulator and then actual aircraft time before getting license. I only taxied a few times, usually to assist Instrument Shop, but did run-up's a few times a week on Swings/mids. We usually were tied up with flying during day shift. That meant a lot of time on ladder in quick-fix prior to flight or in quick-turn after returning. I found it interesting how much displays changed between ground power and A/C power. We went TDY from 539th FIS McGuire to Tyndall for live fire after I got qualified (early spring of 1967). We had a serious issue with one bird and I was working on it after midnight with an 0800 mission. Well crew chiefs all went to breakfast and I finally found and fixed problem. But I needed to do last minute steering loop test and check displays. We were parked down on Test Squadron area of ramp, near Hanger 5. Without any crew-chiefs to run and since I had a MA-1 partner with me, we decieded to run it up and do final alignments. I had partner stand fire bottle as I cranked. Well he go called back to mock-up for some more parts so I just opened the Idle thrust vents and did my final checks. I had to adjust the display so I just climbed down and back up and was done in about 3 minutes. Before I could shut down I needed ground crew. So I called tower to patch me through to expediatre truck. The crew cheif was pulling up at the same time as a Full Col climbed up the ladder and asked WTF I was doing. Crew cheif put him on intercom and he was an inspector, not six qualified. So I asked him if he was aware of Idle Thrust system. It basically dispersed thrust and prevented Aircraft from going anywhere. So I let him sit in Cockpit and release brakes and let engine run. It didn't move. So I then had him close idle thrust and move throttle a few degrees...Six wanted to jump chocks. So the we shut it down and went to his car. I explained we were in live fire exercise TDY with early morning mission,. I showed him my run license and explained we we simulating a war time mission and I was doing my best to make it happen. I explained I followed all safety requirements for start/run and was never in any risk of airplane moving. He couldn't believe MA-1/RADAR weenies were allowed to run A/C. It was an exception and although I broke all the rules he let me off the hook with promise I wouldn't do it again...unless we were at war. Next day I got called into Ops Trailer and got my a$$ chewed by Sq Cmd who was flying my bird. He said it better friggin work perfect because he got chewed by the Inspector. We got lucky and it got confirmed kill on firebee drone. Of course that meant that missle went within 3 feet of wingtip. To save drones, pilot had to call with a lock and fire radio call. The drone op then started dropping chaff or flares, which ever we were firing that day. BTW, we all got extra safety beiefings after that trip about conduct allowed. I knew it was because of me. 539th closed down that summer after our TDY. I got orders back to Tyndall while most of troops went to 95th at Dover. We were both round eye aircraft.
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Apr 29, 2012 4:45:48 GMT 9
Iber said:
I never, not never, sat in a classroom, or had any other away from the plane instruction on run-up or taxi.
When I was on recips, we just sat in the left seat, or front seat, and someone who knew how sat in the other seat and talked me through a start, but couldn't taxi. At The SCAB.
On Mustangs, 87th FIS, the crew chief would make the start from outside, while the pilot climbed in and hooked up. At The SCAB.
When we got Saber Dogs, ADC put some very heavy restrictions on run and taxi, but no school. At The SCAB.
When I got checked out on the Thud, the maintenance officer stood on the ladder and talked me through the start and taxi. At Nellis. On the Six, I crewed a B Model, a pilot was in the back seat and talked me through a start, then taxi. At Minot.
Form 35 duly endorsed and I never quit until I got on F-4s.
We could start, but not taxi.
My favorite, at Minot, was taxi to the trim pad, then blast the housing area, late at night.
At Nellis, we would turn the tail pipe toward Salt Lake Highway, no Interstate yet, and wait until cars were spotted coming down off the high desert, then pop the burner.
Some very startled drivers.
There is nothing like taking a J-75 to burner.
The one in the Thud had a different sound, as it had water injection, and the nozzles/eyelids were much different.
Different bases, different methods.
Jim Too
:god_bless_usa
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bobshields56
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Post by bobshields56 on Apr 29, 2012 6:18:39 GMT 9
I was Engine run qualified on the F=106 as a crew chief, also taxied them to the trim pad. Don't recall any other specialists being qualified.
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Post by LBer1568 on Apr 29, 2012 8:00:07 GMT 9
Well remember we were spark chasers and needed all the help we could get. Once I got into flight simulation, we had engine run school for crew chiefs and engine folks. They had to go through classroom, take a test then go through Simulation with malfunctionsbefore getting to go to A/C and finalizing certs. On F-111 they had a 30 day window. If they, or pilot, had not done engine start within 30 days they had to go back to sim for cert.
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MOW
Administrator
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Post by MOW on Apr 29, 2012 10:37:07 GMT 9
Iber said: I never, not never, sat in a classroom, or had any other away from the plane instruction on run-up or taxi. When I was on recips, we just sat in the left seat, or front seat, and someone who knew how sat in the other seat and talked me through a start, but couldn't taxi. At The SCAB. On Mustangs, 87th FIS, the crew chief would make the start from outside, while the pilot climbed in and hooked up. At The SCAB. When we got Saber Dogs, ADC put some very heavy restrictions on run and taxi, but no school. At The SCAB. When I got checked out on the Thud, the maintenance officer stood on the ladder and talked me through the start and taxi. At Nellis. On the Six, I crewed a B Model, a pilot was in the back seat and talked me through a start, then taxi. At Minot. Form 35 duly endorsed and I never quit until I got on F-4s. We could start, but not taxi. My favorite, at Minot, was taxi to the trim pad, then blast the housing area, late at night. At Nellis, we would turn the tail pipe toward Salt Lake Highway, no Interstate yet, and wait until cars were spotted coming down off the high desert, then pop the burner. Some very startled drivers. There is nothing like taking a J-75 to burner. The one in the Thud had a different sound, as it had water injection, and the nozzles/eyelids were much different. Different bases, different methods. Jim Too In the 87th late 70's we trained for an initial engine run license in the flight sim, then got tested in the flight sim, then went to the jet. For taxi license we sat the front seat of a B model while an FCF pilot sat the rear and certified us. Maj Loveless is the one I remember most from the taxi checkout.
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Post by pat perry on Apr 30, 2012 2:44:17 GMT 9
Back in the mid-late 1960's all the experienced Crew Chiefs were getting tapped for Viet Nam. Since MA-1 was a stateside only (Not counting TDY to Korea) and since we were main reason for a lot of ground runs, a lot of us got Run-up/Taxi qualified. We spent a few hours in class room, a few trips to simulator and then actual aircraft time before getting license. I only taxied a few times, usually to assist Instrument Shop, but did run-up's a few times a week on Swings/mids. We usually were tied up with flying during day shift. That meant a lot of time on ladder in quick-fix prior to flight or in quick-turn after returning. I found it interesting how much displays changed between ground power and A/C power. We went TDY from 539th FIS McGuire to Tyndall for live fire after I got qualified (early spring of 1967). We had a serious issue with one bird and I was working on it after midnight with an 0800 mission. Well crew chiefs all went to breakfast and I finally found and fixed problem. But I needed to do last minute steering loop test and check displays. We were parked down on Test Squadron area of ramp, near Hanger 5. Without any crew-chiefs to run and since I had a MA-1 partner with me, we decieded to run it up and do final alignments. I had partner stand fire bottle as I cranked. Well he go called back to mock-up for some more parts so I just opened the Idle thrust vents and did my final checks. I had to adjust the display so I just climbed down and back up and was done in about 3 minutes. Before I could shut down I needed ground crew. So I called tower to patch me through to expediatre truck. The crew cheif was pulling up at the same time as a Full Col climbed up the ladder and asked WTF I was doing. Crew cheif put him on intercom and he was an inspector, not six qualified. So I asked him if he was aware of Idle Thrust system. It basically dispersed thrust and prevented Aircraft from going anywhere. So I let him sit in Cockpit and release brakes and let engine run. It didn't move. So I then had him close idle thrust and move throttle a few degrees...Six wanted to jump chocks. So the we shut it down and went to his car. I explained we were in live fire exercise TDY with early morning mission,. I showed him my run license and explained we we simulating a war time mission and I was doing my best to make it happen. I explained I followed all safety requirements for start/run and was never in any risk of airplane moving. He couldn't believe MA-1/RADAR weenies were allowed to run A/C. It was an exception and although I broke all the rules he let me off the hook with promise I wouldn't do it again...unless we were at war. Next day I got called into Ops Trailer and got my a$$ chewed by Sq Cmd who was flying my bird. He said it better friggin work perfect because he got chewed by the Inspector. We got lucky and it got confirmed kill on firebee drone. Of course that meant that missle went within 3 feet of wingtip. To save drones, pilot had to call with a lock and fire radio call. The drone op then started dropping chaff or flares, which ever we were firing that day. BTW, we all got extra safety beiefings after that trip about conduct allowed. I knew it was because of me. 539th closed down that summer after our TDY. I got orders back to Tyndall while most of troops went to 95th at Dover. We were both round eye aircraft. Lorin, That story deserves an Exalt. I was trying to remember if you told that one in the Old Sarge's War Story contest a few years back. Unfortunately the search engine on Proboards is not real effective or I just haven't figured out how to use it in the past 10 years. I am making some notes on how it might be improved in the next Proboards release. Hey Old Sarge, could you find the URL for that contest or bump that thread back up? There were some good stories there by our members. Thanks, Pat P. :2thumbsup
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Post by Jim on Apr 30, 2012 3:23:49 GMT 9
Back in the mid-late 1960's all the experienced Crew Chiefs were getting tapped for Viet Nam. Since MA-1 was a stateside only (Not counting TDY to Korea) and since we were main reason for a lot of ground runs, a lot of us got Run-up/Taxi qualified. We spent a few hours in class room, a few trips to simulator and then actual aircraft time before getting license. I only taxied a few times, usually to assist Instrument Shop, but did run-up's a few times a week on Swings/mids. We usually were tied up with flying during day shift. That meant a lot of time on ladder in quick-fix prior to flight or in quick-turn after returning. I found it interesting how much displays changed between ground power and A/C power. We went TDY from 539th FIS McGuire to Tyndall for live fire after I got qualified (early spring of 1967). We had a serious issue with one bird and I was working on it after midnight with an 0800 mission. Well crew chiefs all went to breakfast and I finally found and fixed problem. But I needed to do last minute steering loop test and check displays. We were parked down on Test Squadron area of ramp, near Hanger 5. Without any crew-chiefs to run and since I had a MA-1 partner with me, we decieded to run it up and do final alignments. I had partner stand fire bottle as I cranked. Well he go called back to mock-up for some more parts so I just opened the Idle thrust vents and did my final checks. I had to adjust the display so I just climbed down and back up and was done in about 3 minutes. Before I could shut down I needed ground crew. So I called tower to patch me through to expediatre truck. The crew cheif was pulling up at the same time as a Full Col climbed up the ladder and asked WTF I was doing. Crew cheif put him on intercom and he was an inspector, not six qualified. So I asked him if he was aware of Idle Thrust system. It basically dispersed thrust and prevented Aircraft from going anywhere. So I let him sit in Cockpit and release brakes and let engine run. It didn't move. So I then had him close idle thrust and move throttle a few degrees...Six wanted to jump chocks. So the we shut it down and went to his car. I explained we were in live fire exercise TDY with early morning mission,. I showed him my run license and explained we we simulating a war time mission and I was doing my best to make it happen. I explained I followed all safety requirements for start/run and was never in any risk of airplane moving. He couldn't believe MA-1/RADAR weenies were allowed to run A/C. It was an exception and although I broke all the rules he let me off the hook with promise I wouldn't do it again...unless we were at war. Next day I got called into Ops Trailer and got my a$$ chewed by Sq Cmd who was flying my bird. He said it better friggin work perfect because he got chewed by the Inspector. We got lucky and it got confirmed kill on firebee drone. Of course that meant that missle went within 3 feet of wingtip. To save drones, pilot had to call with a lock and fire radio call. The drone op then started dropping chaff or flares, which ever we were firing that day. BTW, we all got extra safety beiefings after that trip about conduct allowed. I knew it was because of me. 539th closed down that summer after our TDY. I got orders back to Tyndall while most of troops went to 95th at Dover. We were both round eye aircraft. Lorin, That story deserves an Exalt. I was trying to remember if you told that one in the Old Sarge's War Story contest a few years back. Unfortunately the search engine on Proboards is not real effective or I just haven't figured out how to use it in the past 10 years. I am making some notes on how it might be improved in the next Proboards release. Hey Old Sarge, could you find the URL for that contest or bump that thread back up? There were some good stories there by our members. Thanks, Pat P. Prizes and awards for reunions,etc and Tall Tales Contest llhad to go to 3000 days and 150 entries in the search...... The search indentifies the threads but not the topics Clicking on the blue thread will take you to the Topic without having to search- in this case Alumni and Reunions for some and Maintainence Talk for TT contest ll for all of the entries.. There are 132 postings in these 2 topics......... Go to page 1 0f 4 for Maint Talk and another thread in Alumni and Reunions=The Old Sarge Builds More Awards
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chiefeda
F-106 Qualified
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Retired: USAF NBA: None NFL: Seahawks, Saints MLB: None NHL: Blues, Predators
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Post by chiefeda on Mar 20, 2014 4:37:51 GMT 9
I had a run license while in the 318FIS as a MA-1 troop. We only had a couple of 7 levels that could run. As I recall, the main reason was to free up the crew chief when MA-1 needed an aircraft power run to checkout and verify, and fix malfunctions that would not show up on ground power. Prior to the PUP mod AC power was a big issue and often times took extensive runs to find and correct some malfunctions. As a side benefit, we would run for the hydraulics to adjust and fix flight control problems to keep from hooking up a MULE. Sometimes, I was asked to run for engine shop so they could trim the engine. I still remember the RUSH while tied down on the trim pad, the bird not me, and going out board on the throttle. The nose strut would be almost fully collapsed, the jet straining at the tie down cables, a second of SILENCE, and then the BOOM and a bounce. Of course, that was because we were adjusting the MA-1 system but often ran on the pad so engine troops could trim the engine. Most runs were in the chocks on the spot. Remember running a B-Model once without the seat installed using only a chair out of the office. Only did that on trim pad, hard to hold the brakes! Taxi was a no-no for MA-1 frogs, at least, in the 318th. Ah! the only thing missing here is the smell of JP-4.
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 20, 2014 4:49:41 GMT 9
I also had a run license at McGuire. I was MA-1 5 level, but worked mostly swings and mids. Since we were mostly alone on mids (MA-1) we got used to doing everything ourselves. On mids we had to recall stand-by troops and would take an hour or so. So COM allowed about 5-6 MA-1 to get run up license. I worked MA-1 from early 1964 to Dec 1970. In Jan 1971 I cross trained into flight simulation. The career field was super short on mid level NCO's. Lorin
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Post by bear (Deceased) on Jun 23, 2014 12:28:24 GMT 9
I was in MA-1 for 21 yr; and at Seldridge twice, Castle twice, Wursmith, K I Sawyer, Oxnard, Osan, and Iceland never saw a MA-1 with a runnup lic. I got a few rides on a ladder. Bear
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