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Post by dude on Jun 21, 2009 9:09:48 GMT 9
Just curious. In my squadron there was a time when an MA-1 seven level was authorized to do engine runs. It ended soon after I arrived when a TSGT decided sitting there running the engine wasn't good enough and took it "for a little drive". Anyway, I was curious... besides crew chiefs and engine troops, was there anyone else in a Six outfit that would usually get an engine run license?
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 21, 2009 10:02:31 GMT 9
I don't know of any squadrons or commands that had other maintenance people run-up qualified. I coulde be wrong.
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Post by dude on Jun 21, 2009 22:27:26 GMT 9
I don't know of any squadrons or commands that had other maintenance people run-up qualified. I coulde be wrong. Whenever, the magnetron in the MA-1 system was changed out, the hydraulic lines feeding it had to be bled. Sometimes a hydraulic mule and/or crew chief was not available. This is the reason a few MA-1 guys had a license (i.e. one per shift). But like I said, they took it away when one of them actually taxied the aircraft. Don't know the details other than he took it out the taxiway towards the end of the runway, sat there for a couple minutes and then brought it back to its parking spot about the time the sky cops showed up. They didn't bust him, which totally amazed me. But that was the last time an MA-1 troop ran a Six in the squadron.
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Post by mrbones on Jun 22, 2009 21:08:40 GMT 9
At the 95th FIS at Dover we had some of our MA-1 troops with run-up licensees . This came in very handy when we had problem that would only show up on A/C power.This also helped when we deployed to a base that did not have the power equipment for checking out the MA-1 system. We also had a few with taxi licensees for checking out stable table problems. I had a runup licensee while a 5 level. :us_flag :fire_missle_ani
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darttender
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Post by darttender on Jul 21, 2009 11:35:32 GMT 9
I do remember at least one spark chaser who could run. Here at The Griff, the ranking electrician took a bird out to the active to 'test drive' a WOW switch he had changed on the nose gear. He really got some attention as he accelerated down the runway, to the point that the nose gear lifted.
"Ops Check Good!"
As a young JET, I was running and doing occasional taxiing well before I sewed on what might be considered "enough" stripes. But, there was a need at the time, and I did what we needed to do to make the mission.
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bushmaster
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Post by bushmaster on Sept 10, 2009 18:19:20 GMT 9
was an autopilot troop at minot,,i had arunup license for about a year,,just kept us from putting a hydalic mule on it,,by the way dick buschelman 63 tp 67 5 fis spitten kitten and by the way many a time i had the urge to take this baby for a little jaunt down the runway,,,,was a happy day when crew chiefs came up to par and i gave it up
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sixerviper
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Post by sixerviper on Sept 20, 2009 10:05:14 GMT 9
Late in my career when I was Avionics branch chief in the Va Air Guard, we had two Avionics guys certified for runups in the F-16. It helped us considerably. They sometimes had to do runups for other shops, which got them to grumbling, but that was the price we paid to have our own runup guys. No subsitute for a knoledgeable body in the cockpit. I might add that it's impossible for safety reasons to have a maintainer on the ladder of an F-16 while the engine is running.
When my unit converted from the F-105 to the A-7 in 1981, they did away with enlisted people taxiing airplanes at all. Don't know why. I figure it's just more b/s thinking we weren't smart enough to do it.
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tmbak
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Post by tmbak on Sept 21, 2009 1:45:01 GMT 9
I had a run up and taxi license on the F-106 for the whole 5+ years I server at Loring. Several times I took to the runway to burn in a new set of brakes. The most time saving thing we used to do was when there was a configuration change from flying with drop tanks to flying clean wing I would taxi to the trim pad at the end of the runway and burn the tanks out. Before leaving the parking ramp the main gear door closed switch would be tied up to the door closed position so the tanks would feed. When I got to the end of the runway I would hold the brakes go into min burner run up to max burner for 5 minutes, max time for burner on the ground, come back to mil power for two minutes and the tanks were dry. I would then taxi up to the nose dock where the tanks were stored, located on the left side of the taxi way coming back to the squadron area, where a crew of three would be waiting to drop the tanks. After the tanks were off I would taxi back to the parking spot and after a quick top off the plane was ready to go. Total time for this operation was about 25-30 minutes much faster than getting a defuel truck. There were also several MA1 guys that were run qualified to run the aircraft.
Tom
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Post by lugnuts55 on Nov 28, 2009 23:10:46 GMT 9
I was a buck sgt in '71 at Minot when I went through the simulator. I passed and was going to be run-up certified. It never happened because a week later, I got orders for Thailand and F-4's. I never got a run license there because it was not necessary. We had several guys per shift who already were qualified. I seem to remember a couple shops at Minot who still had guys with an engine run-up license
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Dec 1, 2009 4:14:50 GMT 9
It was called "POMO" = Production Oriented Maintenance Orgaization
That is correct. Some bird Col. observed the Israeli Air Force and that is how we tried POMO. I was in the 318th when that happened. POMO called for one engine troop to be assigned to phase dock (ISO). I was the one sent to phase dock. Funny thing was. I did all the engine inspections and fixing plus pulled pannels and some other crew chief duties. Never did I get any assistance from any crewchiefs. If there was an engine change then the flightline engine troops came in and helped me.
I hated POMO. "Pi$$ Poor Idea"
Just before we went into POMO we had a party at my home. The pic is of a cake that was made.
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Post by dude on Dec 1, 2009 8:31:41 GMT 9
Yep I remember POMO in the mid 70's. They though they could cross MA-1s over to other fields. Problem was we were always tied up trying to fix the MA-1.
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Dec 1, 2009 9:09:11 GMT 9
It was made by Frisbie's bakery on 38th st. in Tacoma. I gave them a 318th patch and they copied it onto the cake. That part was excellent. But, the engine shop part, well they ran out of room.
Combat Oriented Maintenance Orgaization (COMO) I left the 318th FIS in the fall of 1978. My next assignment took us to Sembach Air Base, West Germany. I arrived there and for over a month there were no aircraft there. Just 5 or 6 CH-53 Choppers. I help the engine troops out now and then on the chopper engines just to keep busy and avoid $hit details. Two years or more into that assignment another program started that had us cross-training. I did everything on the OV-10A Bronco except for Radio Com/Nav. Findly getting sick and tired of doing refuels, defuels, preflights, postflights, thru-flights, etc, etc.... I told the bosses I wanted my name on the side of an aircraft. Next thing I knew I was the NCOIC of Jet Engine Maintenance and also a crewchief of acft #785. I was one busy SOB, but it was fun. OV-10A Bronco was a simple aircraft. I think that program kicked in about 1981 and could have been called COMO overseas. When I came back to McChord AFB in late 1982 and assigned to (MAC) I never heard of or seen anything like POMO or COMO. Guess the Air Force got smart and figured out it was not good to have jacks of all trades and very few masters.
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Post by lindel on Dec 17, 2009 10:14:32 GMT 9
I remember POMO too, but the Mockup was usually exempt from that kind of stuff. Something about broke airplanes...
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jwcoon
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Post by jwcoon on Feb 6, 2010 16:27:11 GMT 9
I was being considered for a runup license at Griff but while TDY to Tyndall in Jan of 83 I got short notice orders to the 57th at Keflavik. Took the orders and reported in Feb of 83. At least I managed to snag an Altitude Card at Tyndall but didnt get to use it at the Grif. Big mistake i made at the Kef was getting runup license on the F-4E. Didnt know i would be one of three or four. Practically had to sneak off base on weekends or risk the call that a run was needed. That happened to often.
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cc790
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Post by cc790 on Feb 19, 2010 11:24:20 GMT 9
The same thing happened to me at Minot. Most of the guys got de-certified for "expediting the active" on the way back from the trim pad. Me and one other guy kept our licenses, mostly because we were TDY when Base Ops decided to clamp down on taxi speeds. We were pulled off the weekend duty lists because we got called at all hours of the day to run and taxi. Sure was fun though.
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dano
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Post by dano on May 13, 2010 0:19:49 GMT 9
I was a flight line jet engine mechanic at Castle with the 84th from 1977-1980, and I went through the POMO thing also. At first really did not like it, but after awhile came to enjoy the different duties. Got my name on the side of an airplane as the CC, also got to do 6 months at the alert barn as a CC, thought that was great duty. Back on topic, I also had my run up license, lots of fun running the bird on the trim pad.
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tmbak
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Post by tmbak on May 13, 2010 9:31:54 GMT 9
During my Air Force career I had run authority on every aircraft I worked on. As a two striper, in 1961, I was running F-100's in Japan. Back then we did not have run licenses. If you were checked out to run then you could run the aircraft. When I returned to the states in 63 first at Giger Field and then McChord, six months later, I was checked out to run the F-101 and the F-106. During a six month TDY to Okinawa in early 66 I was checked out on the F-102. When I was in Thailand in late 66 I was checked out on the F-105 for run and taxi. Back in the states at Loring in 67 was the first time I had a run and taxi license for the F-106. While in England in the mid 70's I was checked out to run the F-4. Back at McChord in the late 70's I was once again run an taxi qualified on the Dart. When I was Tech Rep, First for General Dynamics and then Lockheed Martain, I was run qualified on the F-16. Now all I get to run is my Cessna 172!!!
Tom
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Post by burt49 on May 14, 2010 8:53:43 GMT 9
You are in the United States Air Force. You try to be a contributer as you try to make yourself better. One day you are the assistant crew chief on the six (check the oil, top off the lox and hydraulics, and fill it with JP4) and before you know it, you are on the trim pad. Those who have run up the J-75 know what it is like to be tied down at 100% power. Then, you engage the afterburner. Dog Gone those pilots having all the fun, you really want some one to remove the tie downs and lets get this baby off. You are still in the growth mode as you learn all about the ejection seats and the initiators and how they work. Then one day a good check by the new signees reveals the initiators are out of sequence. The back guy on a B model is supposed to go first, but the way it is set up, both are going out the same time. It is sobering to consider the responsibilty associated with an aircraft. With every move you make, you can help or hurt. Then there is taking a turn on alert. Two birds with Genies and two birds with only secondaries. As other posters have indicated, you can get a six outside the pod pretty darn quick. This is what we did in ADC. You might be on the way, but you are going to have to get by us first. The Marines might be looking for a few good men, but the Air Force already had them. B. McKee USAF :
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on May 14, 2010 14:54:15 GMT 9
Running up a single engine jet is nice. But, have you ever done any Alert starts on B-52's? I've done many. You start number 4 & number 6 engines and fill the bleed air system with compressed air. Then you push in the start buttons on number 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, & 8 engines all at once. You are simulating a EWO Alert engine start. You have to watch and observe like 32 jet engine gauges, and 8 starter buttons, advance the throttles at the proper RPM to give fuel flow, and you need to watch for the starter buttons to pop back out at the proper RPM and if some don't you have to be ready to pull them out. All the time you are watching for RPM rising, EGT light-off, oil pressure, over heat, hung starts, and any other problem that might develope. It's a real rush! :2thumbsup
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Post by Mark O on May 15, 2010 6:44:27 GMT 9
Running up a single engine jet is nice. But, have you ever done any Alert starts on B-52's? I've done many. You start number 4 & number 6 engines and fill the bleed air system with compressed air. Then you push in the start buttons on number 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, & 8 engines all at once. You are simulating a EWO Alert engine start. You have to watch and observe like 32 jet engine gauges, and 8 starter buttons, advance the throttles at the proper RPM to give fuel flow, and you need to watch for the starter buttons to pop back out at the proper RPM and if some don't you have to be ready to pull them out. All the time you are watching for RPM rising, EGT light-off, oil pressure, over heat, hung starts, and any other problem that might develope. It's a real rush! Talk about an aircraft that just screamed for a flight engineer!! What in the world was General LeMay thinking? The story that I've always heard was he, Gen Lemay, had some real issues with putting an enlisted man in the cockpit, and that is why the KC-135 and B-52 did not have an FE. Maybe it's just one of those old, urban legends, but when you describe an engine start like that, I for one cannot help but wonder how helpful an FE would be to a B-52 aircraft commander. Mark
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