MOW
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Post by MOW on Jul 18, 2008 19:34:58 GMT 9
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Post by ma1marv on Jul 18, 2008 23:44:35 GMT 9
WOW! Great pics! I noticed that the "A" models all seemed to have the gun pod mounted. The inflight with rails down shows the split doors really well. The aft rails are down, so it must have been early in the firing sequence, or at least the pilot only had IR selected. The pic illustrates the spacing of the rails and the gun pod really well. Had to copy them for myself!   MArv  |
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Black Bart
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Post by Black Bart on Jul 19, 2008 4:17:24 GMT 9
Great pics. Now can anyone tell how the pilot, opened the doors and got the aft rails to lower, without firing the weapons? Black Bart   |
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mal
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Post by mal on Aug 19, 2008 9:41:05 GMT 9
Sure, the trigger has 2 positions. Though seldom used, position 1 generated "C" time in the missile preparation. This opened the doors, lowered the rails (aft or IR missiles) and a bunch of other uninteresting things. The missiles held in this position indefinitely and would fire instantly when the trigger was squeezed to position 2.
Of course, those missiles were simulators and had no motors; they just recorded all the signals from the FCS in order to evaluate the systems capability to fire a live missile.
I'll have to stop now and clean the cobwebs off the computer.
Incidentally, I had the honor of being in the pointy end of the B model in the lead of that 8 ship.....good times.
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Aug 19, 2008 18:00:32 GMT 9
Incidentally, I had the honor of being in the pointy end of the B model in the lead of that 8 ship.....good times. No kidding I think that's pretty amazing how 'stuff' we collect and eventually pass on to others i.e. these pics to me from Norman Gaines who actually took them, would find not only one of the pilots in the shot, but the lead of the formation. And then to have all of us here able to share it... again as it were. Damn it is a small world Thanks for joining mal |
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Black Bart
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Post by Black Bart on Aug 20, 2008 3:25:57 GMT 9
Hey Mal, good to have you on board and a good answer too. Few pilots knew what the two detentes were for. Yes holding the trigger at first detente would stop the firing sequence at "D" time. You only had a second or two for a perfect shot, but when the second detente was pulled, the firing was right now.
In 20 years, I never saw a simulator like this. Even the IR WESMs, mainly at Tyndal were BLUE.
These look real.
A safer way would be to not install the stinger cables. With no ignition, the missiles would just hang and the MA-1 would wait for a missile gone signal.
Another way and I have seen this on a "B" model was a bad Cabin Air Timer. You see, the cabin air "Pressurization" was taken from the missile bay. If pressurization didn't stop, the missile would hang at "D" time and you had to GUTS it. You don't want the fumes in the cockpit.
In either case the "G" weight was released and as the missile accelerated off the rail the "G" weight was moved back and the missile was now armed and gone.
I don't remember, how many Gs were required, but normal flying would not arm a missile after the pilot hit the Guts Button and the pilot would be very careful after a Guts action.
The missiles would only have to go to the missile shop to be re serviced, and they are good for another flight.
Thanks for a decent answer,
Black Bart
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biendhoa
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Post by biendhoa on Aug 20, 2008 6:58:50 GMT 9
I worked for almost 10 years on the B model as a mechanical accessories tech, and that is the first i ever heard of cabin air pressurization coming from the missile bay.The air cycling machine was located above the fwd missile bay just aft of the heat exchanger along with several other refrigeration and pressurization components accessible through a panel in the top of the missile bay.Also never heard of a cabin air timer. where was it located and who took care of it?
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Black Bart
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Post by Black Bart on Aug 21, 2008 2:59:34 GMT 9
I am not sure of the location on either model. As a MA-1 Flt Line weenie, this problem drove us nuts. This "B" model would cycle perfectly on the ground, but not airborne. Several test flights were flown. One with a Hughes Rep. Another with a Convair Rep and another with an MA-1 NCO. I believe the problem was accidentally figured out after several factory calls. The explanation is as it was relayed to me a three level, by my SSgt trainer.
Black Bart
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Post by pat perry on Aug 21, 2008 4:42:03 GMT 9
I am not sure of the location on either model. As a MA-1 Flt Line weenie, this problem drove us nuts. This "B" model would cycle perfectly on the ground, but not airborne. Several test flights were flown. One with a Hughes Rep. Another with a Convair Rep and another with an MA-1 NCO. I believe the problem was accidentally figured out after several factory calls. The explanation is as it was relayed to me a three level, by my SSgt trainer. Black Bart Bart, you and biendhoa may both be correct. Dang-it, I wish I had my schematics. As I recall, the air turbine was driven by hot air from the 16th engine compressor stage. It traveled through a bleed air shutoff/diverter valve then into the heat exchanger which cooled it down to about 300 degrees. Ram air inlets between the engine intakes and the fuselage passed ram air across the heat exchanger and also supplied inlet air to the other side of the air turbine. The turbine compressed that inlet air and could throw snow balls into the cockpit unless that diverter valve mixed a little bleed air into the ducts. If there was a timer involved it would have probably been in a MA-1 or Weps box and would have shut off the bleed air valve (hence the turbine) or refer switch momentarily during a missile launch to keep from pumping the cockpit full of foul air via the ram air ducts or the engine intakes. I could imagine that the timer (wherever it was) might have been a booger to troubleshoot if it was failing intermittently. I had a high resistance short in a refer switch one time. The pilot (my CO) would write up that cockpit went full hot randomly during flight. The temp would get up to about 150 and heat up the steel on his belts and he would burn his face when it touched them. After the third time he said, "Perry, if you don't fix that I'm gonna bust you". Being highly motivated by that, I finally found the problem after pulling the refer switch out and putting an ohm meter on it and toggleing the actuator. Felt like a dumb a$$ but retained a stripe! :lol: Thanks, Pat P. 456th FIS |
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biendhoa
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Post by biendhoa on Aug 21, 2008 10:44:32 GMT 9
Pat you are 99.5% right.bleed air came off the 16th stage to the heat exchanger(no shut off valve) to the pressure regulator&shut off valve which was controlled by the refer switch, then to the turbine side of the cooler that spun the cooler and out the ram air exhaust.ram air thru the intakes was compressed by the turbine cooler and went to the cockpit and ma-1 racks. i wont go thru all the circuits that controlled the temperature of the air flow.if there was a switch that shut air off to the cockpit when missiles were fired it would also stop air flow to the ma-1 racks, if that happned the electronic cooling light sensor in the nose wheel well would turn on the electronic cooling light. ;D
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Post by Jim on Aug 21, 2008 11:32:15 GMT 9
biendhoa, welcome back gator bait..nice to be reading technical jargon
The Old Sarge
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Post by pat perry on Jan 11, 2011 7:00:25 GMT 9
Sure, the trigger has 2 positions. Though seldom used, position 1 generated "C" time in the missile preparation. This opened the doors, lowered the rails (aft or IR missiles) and a bunch of other uninteresting things. The missiles held in this position indefinitely and would fire instantly when the trigger was squeezed to position 2. Of course, those missiles were simulators and had no motors; they just recorded all the signals from the FCS in order to evaluate the systems capability to fire a live missile. I'll have to stop now and clean the cobwebs off the computer. Incidentally, I had the honor of being in the pointy end of the B model in the lead of that 8 ship.....good times. Mal, Welcome back! We've missed you since Aug 18, 2008. Great story - tell some more! Pat P. :2thumbsup |
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Post by Jim on Feb 15, 2016 11:28:52 GMT 9
Norman Gaines sent me a DVD of some great pics he took during the 119th FIS 'Dart Out' day. I've posted them on webshots and a link from the 119th Page on www.f-106deltadart.com/119fis.htmHe's got some in flights with bay doors open, gears down and more. Thanks Norman!   |
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Post by pat perry on Feb 15, 2016 14:49:01 GMT 9
Norman Gaines sent me a DVD of some great pics he took during the 119th FIS 'Dart Out' day. I've posted them on webshots and a link from the 119th Page on www.f-106deltadart.com/119fis.htm He's got some in flights with bay doors open, gears down and more. Thanks Norman! Some really great Pics from the NJ ANG. Apparently the Jersey Devils had fewer restrictions on the use of cameras than we had in the regular USAF. I really envy that!
Pat P.
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Post by Jim on Feb 16, 2016 0:15:20 GMT 9
Look at these pictures!!!!!!!! Some really great Pics from the NJ ANG. Apparently the Jersey Devils had fewer restrictions on the use of cameras than we had in the regular USAF. I really envy that!
Pat P.
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Post by Gene on Feb 16, 2016 1:44:48 GMT 9
outstanding photos. shows some real talent behind-the-lens...
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Post by Jim on Feb 16, 2016 2:00:19 GMT 9
outstanding photos. shows some real talent behind-the-lens... |
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Post by pat perry on Feb 16, 2016 2:13:43 GMT 9
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Post by Gene on Feb 16, 2016 6:48:39 GMT 9
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Post by Jim on Feb 16, 2016 7:27:14 GMT 9
Some really great Pics from the NJ ANG. Apparently the Jersey Devils had fewer restrictions on the use of cameras than we had in the regular USAF. I really envy that!
Pat P.
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