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Post by daoleguy A.J. Hoehn (deceased) on Oct 22, 2007 7:17:54 GMT 9
Was anyone there then. I remember seeing the Buff slide off the runway one rainy spring morning. Story we got was the first and second seat got confused over to land or go around. It resulted with the plane sliding off the end of the runway and the forward crew section fractured.
On 021 (El Jefe), Gen Price bit the bullet. LtCol Suzanne was his wingman. If I am right, it cost him a chance at the T-Bird team. That incident is a long story and the USAF officially altered the reports. I was on the equipment/instrument panel crash recovery team from Avionics with Ed Cook, our tech rep, for that one. Not a pretty sight.
Anyone else there at the time?
AJ
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Bullhunter
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Post by Bullhunter on Oct 22, 2007 8:40:39 GMT 9
I was there when Gen. price went down. I was in the SAC unit. We were told that he had a lightening strike while in a turn and he never came out of the turn. Just continued the turn and lost altitude until impact with the ground.
I'd just got there after they had cleaned up the mess with the
B-52 off the end of the runway.
As we were briefed they had done a few touch and goes. Then there was an engine problem so it was time to land with one engine shutdown. Yep, thats a big problem when you have 7 other engines operating just fine :lol: .
As the story goes the shutdown engine also had a throttle creeping problem. So as the crew was coming around to land they did everything correctly and had continous engine ignition selected incase of any flameouts in the weather conditions. They landed just fine and poped the drag shute and started braking and brought all engines back to idle.
But remember one engine had been shutdown and it also had a throttle creeping problem. The story goes that the shutdown engine's throttle had crept formard through start and into idle. Fuel flow as automatic and you remember that continous ignition was also active so the engine started and the throttle kept creeping forward creating more thrust as the pilots were watching the runway and applying breaks.
With one engine increasing in forward thrust they just ran out of runway and couldn't stop.
After the crash at the end of runway the crew left the aircraft in haste and as I was told a maintenance troop ran to the aircraft and went inside and shut down the engine or engines.
I was not there, did not witness the crash, just repeating what I was told.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 8:56:06 GMT 9
I was in the Alert barn (pilot) watching as the B-52 drove off the runway. It still had power on and was loaded with Hound dogs. It was part of an ORI launch. I heard they still got an outstanding?! I was supposed to be the chase check pilot to go up with Gen. Price, but told him to wait because of the thunderstorm over the base. He wanted to go--I called Lt Col Jack Suzanne and he said he would come out and fly it. Made me feel like s___ until a few minutes later with the crash. Capt. John Fuhrman and I were I think the first at the crash site. We had listened to a live feed of the flight up in the command post and "heard" the crash. Raced to the site in a truck. Jack was pretty shaken when he landed.... sd
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Post by Tom on Dec 18, 2008 4:34:04 GMT 9
Was anyone there then. I remember seeing the Buff slide off the runway one rainy spring morning. Story we got was the first and second seat got confused over to land or go around. It resulted with the plane sliding off the end of the runway and the forward crew section fractured. On 021 (El Jefe), Gen Price bit the bullet. LtCol Suzanne was his wingman. If I am right, it cost him a chance at the T-Bird team. That incident is a long story and the USAF officially altered the reports. I was on the equipment/instrument panel crash recovery team from Avionics with Ed Cook, our tech rep, for that one. Not a pretty sight. Anyone else there at the time? AJ |
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Post by Tom on Dec 18, 2008 4:39:32 GMT 9
I just found this site so this a answer to an old thread. I was NCOIC of P&S when I got a call from my buddy at SAC Maint Control telling me a F-106 just crashed on tale off. I went into MC to tell them and they had not heard the new and at first did not believe me. OPS would not confirm it at first. I think LC Suzanne was a former Thunderbird pilot.
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Post by daoleguy A.J. Hoehn (deceased) on Dec 18, 2008 6:58:44 GMT 9
LC Suzanne was from my understanding in line for the T-Birds. Not sure where that went. The whole 021 incident was a shame. Comm tapes of the launch and incident I heard clearly pointed out the impatience of Gen Price. Even with cautions he opted to go... now.
Not sure if this was ever released, but our investigation showed he took an impact strike from LC Suzanne's aircraft strike that knocked his primary instuments out. Standby still worked. In clouds 021 rolled inverted and he reacted wrong pulling back. The aircraft began to disintegrate prior to impact losing the tail and partial wings. G-Meter showed 12 G's
021 impacted (most of the fuselage) 30-40 feet from a habitated structure. Gen Price died on impact. An investigator briefed that he had literally crushed part of the yoke prior to impact with his hand. The forward fuselage was imbedded in the ground about three to four feet and surprisingly intact.
I didn't see it, but apparently the canopy separated and showed melt/burn marks on the plexi. The pitot boom was found post crash imbedded in a house a distance from the crash. The vertical stabilizer mostly intact was found to the port of the impact between trees in a lightly wooded area.
Personal opinion here: Price was killed due to his arrogance and failure to heed to advisories. Many of us on recovery agreed to that. I still remember that launch and the sick boom of the stike and softer thud thereafter.
Anyone there at the time?
AJ
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Post by jackq on Mar 26, 2009 8:26:22 GMT 9
I was at the Griff. and remember going to SAC hill and watching them strip the 52...
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 26, 2009 11:31:30 GMT 9
Whilst at Sioux City Air Base, Iowa, I was a member of a traveling alert crew. We would go TDY to North Central ADC bases to pull alert when their fighter squadrons were off to Yuma or Tyndall for gunnery. In 1958, if I have the year correct, we were at Elsworth to pull alert for their 89 squadron. We had F86L birds, two squadrons of them at SCAB. I was in the 13th who was assigned alert duty for that TDY.
I was on shift one fine evening and we were just sitting around when the Buffs began making noises. One of them began takeoff roll and headed south, I think, toward the highway to Rapid City. Elsworth sits on a bluff and the end of the runway is quite a bit higher than the highway, now I 90. Off the end of the runway was the ILS shack. As the Buff rolled something went wrong and it never lifted off, but staggered, according to those who saw it, and went in to the ILS shack. As it was full of fuel it made a real big noise and the alert hanger shook like a bomb had gone off next to it. The alert hanger was at that end of the runway. Never did hear what the accident review board decided went wrong as it was at full power when it left the ground.
The bigger they are the more noise they make when they hit the dirt.
Seems amazing to me that the Buff is still flying after over 50 years, along with the Herk, the KC135, the T38 and maybe one or two more.
:god_bless_usa
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 27, 2009 9:12:32 GMT 9
I need to make a correction to my Buff crash story. It was not taking off, but landing and when it hit the ILS shack it killed three, along with two who died on the plane. B-52D 56‑0610 .
Sorry about the confusion I may have caused.
:god_bless_usa
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Post by Bullhunter on Apr 11, 2009 4:39:53 GMT 9
I just read this again and started wondering. How in the hell can a SAC wing receive an "OUTSTANDING" when they crashed a B-52 on landing with Hound-dog weapons onboard?
We need to research this. Someone should be able to dig up the rating someplace.
I remember my arrival at the Griff and asignment to the SAC wing and working the line. The B-52 was cleaned uip by then and it was only talked about by then. I posted above what I was told about the crash.
When we had the next ORI our bombers and tankers took-off about 30 minutes apart. I asked a senior NCO if it was a nuke war they would all take off at once in MITO (Military Intervial Takeoff), so why is it going like this?
His answer was that the Air Traffic Control system in the area could not handle the whole wing of bombers and tankers taking off at one time. I don't know if it was true or not. But, I was looking forward to my first SAC ORI and the massive take-off. I was big time disappointed.
When I was assigned to the 318th FIS and we had an ORI whe had mass scrambles. The whole squadron went airborne one after the other. That was a site to see.
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Post by lindel on Apr 11, 2009 6:44:29 GMT 9
Sounds kind of odd to me that the ATC system couldn't handle the traffic. That is, after all, what they do.
What was the full complement of tankers and buffs? Certainly less than 100. It would make for a busy day, but they should've been able to handle that. I'm fairly certain that Griffiss WAS the local traffic, and Syracuse would've had a bigger load anyway. The closest TRACON would've been either Rochester or Buffalo, again, Griffiss should not have overloaded the AT system.
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Post by lauren044 on Apr 13, 2009 13:03:25 GMT 9
I was stationed at Griffiss AFB when Gen. Price's aircraft was reported to have been hit by lightning and the aircraft disintegrated and fell to to earth in pieces. That was what we were told. I was also at the Griffiss when a Lt. had a 6's throttle stuck in afterburner and it hit the ground and exploded it moved a fairly good size bolder a 30 to 40 feet . The Lt. ejected and got I think a broken right arm.
:e7new :patriotic-flagwaver
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Post by burt49 on Apr 11, 2010 12:29:48 GMT 9
I was at the Griff from January 1971 till May 1974. When the Buff had the incident, some of the 106 jocks climbed painted something like "SAC does it better" on the airframe. It was not long after that that we lost 067 which put everyone in less celebratory mood. Fortunately, the pilot of 067 successfully ejected.
I can speak to the incident involving General Price since I was the crew chief of 021. The general had already gone through two crew chiefs, and although I stll consider it an honor to have me name on a door with a Major General, I came to work an hour earlier than everyone else and left an hour later. I had formula of Turtle Wax and water that I used to clean 021, El Jefe. The general demanded that the aircraft shine.
On a flight line in Rome NY, you can face some very vicious weather. More than once we made the statement we had all weather intercepters and fair weather pilots. The day the general went down was a day I did not want to be on the flightline. It did not look good and I did not think they should go up. Major Suzanne had recently become Like Colonel Suzanne, and had earned everyone's respect. Even he did not seem to thrilled to be out there.
Although I was the general's crewchief, I would not call my self the general's friend. I had heard he was bad about chewing people out, and I kept it strictly business. On the day of the crash, the only thing I said to the general was "good morning sir" and he said good morning back to me. If I was his friend, I would have said "let's get out of here"!
I went inside after the launch, but it was not long before I heard one of the planes went down. I went outside and stood in weather that had continued to deteriorate. Although I did not know which plane had gone down, the choices were rotten. Either my plane had gone done or LC Suzzane. Even through the heavy rain, I could see it was not 021 that landed. My plane had the general's stripes around the fuselage, and this one did not.
Except for a few vacation days, I never missed a day of work in USAF, on that day, I asked for the rest of the day off. There is no feeling like looking your pilot, and I will always question myself as to whether or not I did everything I could do to prevent the crash.
As I have previously posted, my next plane was 787 which had landed by itself. It was not funny at the time and it is not funny today to think of the standing joke that I needed a plane that landed by itself. I have come at peace with myself that if General Price had not acted like General Price, he would not have gone down that day. All he had to do was wait another hour or so until the bad weather blew over. Bad decisions by one person can adversly affect the lives of others. I feel safe in saying this was true for LC Suzanne, and it was certainly true for me.
Burt McKee, USAF
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Post by Bullhunter on Apr 12, 2010 2:28:04 GMT 9
Burt49,,,There wasn't a darn thing you could have done to prevent that crash. The General was bound and determined to go and nothing was going to stop him. It was his attitude that caused his crash.
This was not an ADC-Alert Scramble on some bogie entering United States air space. This was just a training flight. The General should have taken the advice to delay until weather passed. A cup of coffee in the line shack that morning would have been nice instead of take-off in very nasty weather.
I was raised in the Northeast and spent time with SAC at Griffiss. I know what the weather can and will do.
I you go to the 318th FIS page there you can read about a F-106 crash at McChord. My weekend duty crew (jet engine dispatch) was tasked to install a new jet engine in this F-106 and trim it out for a FCF on Monday. I think Tuesday they were all flying to William Tell in Fl.
I was a SSgt then and had two airman and a Sgt with me. We installed the engine Saturday morning and it gave us problems all Saturday afternoon and most of Sunday. It just would not hold trim. Everytime I ran the jet engine up to power the gauges did not show what the T.O. said it should.
Finely we figured the telefix between the engine and the throtthe was loose or defective. OMS crewchiefs work that and I think changed it. Late sunday we ran-up the jet again and made final adjustments on the fuel control. Everything check good and was stable, but I did not feel right about that jet engine. I'd never had that much trouble before on any engine on any type aircraft. I had a sinking feeling this jet engine was going to cause us trouble.
Monday it flew its FCF and passed.
I was off Monday and Tuesday because I worked the weekend. Tuesday my family and I were on Interstate-5 headed for a day in Seattle on the waterfront. As we listened to the radio a news flash came on saying a F-106 fighter jet had just crashed northeast of the runway.
I knew in my heart & mind that it had to be that jet we worked all weekend and it was.
The pilot eject and survived, property damage was light, and nobody on the ground was killed.
Is there anything my crew and/or I could have done to prevent the crash? Anything the crewchiefs could have done, or the FCF Pilot?
The answer to all of it is no. It just happened.
The same with Gen. Price at Griffiss. No one but the General could have stopped him.
There is nothing you could have done yourself.
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Post by lauren044 on Apr 12, 2010 12:29:36 GMT 9
Burt49,
As stated before this posting, you are not to blame and not responsible for what happeded to 021, the Gen. wouldn't have listened to you or anyone but himself.
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Post by burt49 on Apr 14, 2010 10:32:16 GMT 9
The quality of people you work with in the Armed Forces is unequaled in any other profession. I left the Air Force after just one hitch, and became an officer in a fire department for many years. Although I have been fortunate to serve in many rolls over the years, I credit my time in the Air Force as polishing me up for a future. I do appreciate those who spend so much time and effort to maintain such professional website. Although my time with the 6's was shorter than was the case with many of you, my Air Force brothers and the F-106 will always be very dear to me. I don't know if I will be able to load it up, but I would like to import one picture I took of El Jefe (with a very cheap camera). Thank you again for all you do. Burt49 :  |
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Post by LBer1568 on Aug 16, 2020 1:40:57 GMT 9
I ran across the posting about the Griff F-106 that crashed killing Gen Price also known as "El Jefe"...The Boss. I knew the General when he was assigned to Tyndall AFB. He arrived a few months after I did. He was single then and did most of his flight time on cross country trips.
Since the MA-1 System was very unreliable back then us MA-1 weenies got to serve our country about every 3rd weekend with two 12 hour shifts. I was never very happy with the management of the Flight line shop. They had a good ole boys club of about 3 MSgts who worked day shift and never any weekends for "Stand-by". Which for us was just longer shifts and very seldom did we even get comp time.
So back to the General. He was very hard nosed about getting his sorties accomplished. Many times we had to go get him fixed so he could fly home. But many times he would continue his "Cross-country" trip even if he had maintenance issues. I remember several weekends when he returned, we would meet him with Blue 1, MA-1 truck, and see if he had any issues to fix. Most of the time he would shut it down and debrief on the spot. Not even going into Debriefing shop. Twice I remember him saying his TACAN broke about 10 minutes into his flight. He continued with his several stops using Heavy Ground controllers giving him vectors to fly. He never flew without UHF Transmitter/receiver. Many missions he never bothered with MA-1, just using NAV/Comm features in standby mode.
So the General had about a million hours of flight time (maybe a few less) since he started his career in WWII and continued on flight status until the end. I would say he had several thousand hours in the Six. Knowing his love of cross-country flight, he would just press on even when things were not perfect. So was his crash preventable? Maybe as he launched with T-storms in area. One will never know, but the old man was a pretty good El Jefe and was a good leader.
Lorin
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