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Post by Jim on Mar 14, 2015 6:40:17 GMT 9
I din't work on FTD trainer. But the MA-1 system got a mod to counter the range gate stealer at the same time it got the hyd driven Magnatron. That would have been years before leaving service. When we did exercises against the B-52 fleet we had to detune hyd mag to give them better training. MA-1 was only system that could defeat B-52 at will.
Right the mod was there, but the FDT didn't have a test for it. With the stealer board, it could test the Manual IF GAIN control on the 080 in practical application. The stealer was designed to go after the 020's AGC circuits. It superimposed an identical but stronger gain pseudo target over the actual target. This caused the 020 to drive the AGC down which switched the radar lock to the pseudo target. The program would then reduce the range rate of the pseudo target which caused a separation of the actual ranges as the pseudo target "walked off" from the real target. With the AGC way down, the real target was effectively invisible on the scope until about ten miles separation was achieved. At that point the program turned the pseudo target off and once the AGC recovered, the real target reappeared miles below where it had been. Manually turning the gain back up on the 080 brought the real target back into view.
No wonder a tire kicker had to be drunk to be around you guys....... You all talk like MA-1 MArv
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Post by dude on Mar 15, 2015 2:43:04 GMT 9
Right the mod was there, but the FDT didn't have a test for it. With the stealer board, it could test the Manual IF GAIN control on the 080 in practical application. The stealer was designed to go after the 020's AGC circuits. It superimposed an identical but stronger gain pseudo target over the actual target. This caused the 020 to drive the AGC down which switched the radar lock to the pseudo target. The program would then reduce the range rate of the pseudo target which caused a separation of the actual ranges as the pseudo target "walked off" from the real target. With the AGC way down, the real target was effectively invisible on the scope until about ten miles separation was achieved. At that point the program turned the pseudo target off and once the AGC recovered, the real target reappeared miles below where it had been. Manually turning the gain back up on the 080 brought the real target back into view.
No wonder a tire kicker had to be drunk to be around you guys....... You all talk like MA-1 MArvLOL. MA-1 was a language unto itself. With over 100 LRUs carrying unique part numbers starting with 464, we were all system schooled by the next three digits in the part number. Thus, when we say 080, 083, 017, etc. an MA-1 troop knows we're talking about the radar scope, control stick, radar antenna, etc.
P.S. I never minded tire kickers (drunk or otherwise) as long as they stayed away from my radar set with their little rubber hammers.
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 15, 2015 3:23:48 GMT 9
No wonder a tire kicker had to be drunk to be around you guys....... You all talk like MA-1 MArv LOL. MA-1 was a language unto itself. With over 100 LRUs carrying unique part numbers starting with 464, we were all system schooled by the next three digits in the part number. Thus, when we say 080, 083, 017, etc. an MA-1 troop knows we're talking about the radar scope, control stick, radar antenna, etc.
P.S. I never minded tire kickers (drunk or otherwise) as long as they stayed away from my radar set with their little rubber hammers.
Dude, one of the best MA-1 people I ever knew was Bill Lacey, at Minot.
One cold, Winter night, Bill called me in Maintenance Control to ask if I would run a plane for him, so he could trouble shoot with internal power.
He sent someone in to answer the phones, while I headed to the line.
Engine started, Bill turned on the MA-1 System and had his troops trouble shooting.
After a while, when no one could find out what the problem was, Bill asked if I was ready for some coffee.
Told him I was, as it was cold sitting in the cockpit with the canopy open.
So, Bill, fine technician that he was, walked over to a wheel and pulled up a "specialized tool" to finish the job.
He took a chock in hand, walked up to the open bay and firmly hit a box with it.
Then he climbed the ladder, did some adjustments as he leaned in to the cockpit, turned off the radar, and told me to shut the engine down.
Yep, Bill knew just what was wrong, and used the best "tool" to correct the problem.
So, Dude, maybe that rubber hammer we Tire Kickers used, wasn't such a bad idea.
I still have one, red on one side and green on the other.
Haven't used it for years to "fix" anything, since we got rid of our old TV and bought a flat panel model.
Jim Too
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 15, 2015 3:54:18 GMT 9
I met Bill at Tyndall during a deployment. He had a reputation as a fine MA-1 Technician. However, it was actions like you describe that set some real technicians apart from Bill and many of the other early MA-1 Troops. Bill didn't fix anything when he "hit" the rack. He simply allowed the system to function for another attempt. We had a lot of malfunction repaired by simply resetting a "black-box" with our 3/8" spintites. In later years, after the six transferred to Guard/Reserves, they undertook a gold plate program to replace the worn out electrical connectors in racks and on black boxes. That was the single most effective fix made to MA-1 System. I worked MA-1 about 1/3 of my time in ADC. The rest of the time I was an AN/ASQ-25 super technician. For you that don't know what the AN/ASQ-25 was it was the MA-1 system with additional units and fitted on the F-106B Aircraft. While the MA-1 had about 200 units, the AN/ASQ-25 had an additional 35 or so components including duplicate cockpits and the interfaces required to provide backseat operation.
Lorin
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
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Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF NBA: Spurs NFL: Niners MLB: Giants NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Mar 15, 2015 5:09:39 GMT 9
I met Bill at Tyndall during a deployment. He had a reputation as a fine MA-1 Technician. However, it was actions like you describe that set some real technicians apart from Bill and many of the other early MA-1 Troops. Bill didn't fix anything when he "hit" the rack. He simply allowed the system to function for another attempt. We had a lot of malfunction repaired by simply resetting a "black-box" with our 3/8" spintites. In later years, after the six transferred to Guard/Reserves, they undertook a gold plate program to replace the worn out electrical connectors in racks and on black boxes. That was the single most effective fix made to MA-1 System. I worked MA-1 about 1/3 of my time in ADC. The rest of the time I was an AN/ASQ-25 super technician. For you that don't know what the AN/ASQ-25 was it was the MA-1 system with additional units and fitted on the F-106B Aircraft. While the MA-1 had about 200 units, the AN/ASQ-25 had an additional 35 or so components including duplicate cockpits and the interfaces required to provide backseat operation. Lorin Bill was working radar on Interceptors before most of the "Technicians" were out of nappies.
His philosophy, and most Tire Kickers of that era, was a simple one: Whatever it takes to get the bird in the air is what you do, as long as it is safe.
I would take Bill over most of the "Technicians" I dealt with.
Jim Too.
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Post by LBer1568 on Mar 15, 2015 23:50:04 GMT 9
Well maybe that's because you never met me...lol
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Post by dude on Mar 16, 2015 1:39:53 GMT 9
Bill was working radar on Interceptors before most of the "Technicians" were out of nappies.
His philosophy, and most Tire Kickers of that era, was a simple one: Whatever it takes to get the bird in the air is what you do, as long as it is safe.
I would take Bill over most of the "Technicians" I dealt with. Jim Too
Well in the interest of full disclosure, one only need look at the faceplates of several LRUs in the Radar Rack to realize the tire kickers weren't the only ones beating on the boxes. Two stories:Story 1: Flight line...launch...redball for MA-1 problem. The MA-1 van pulls up and I step out to see the Crew Chief has already opened the radar door and is indiscriminately pounding on the boxes with his rubber hammer. "Whoa Tex...easy there boy..." I climb the ladder and the pilot shows me he's having a display problem. I come down, point to the 223 and tell the Crew Chief, "That one." One good rap gets a thumbs up from the pilot and he's on his way. Story 2: Years later I'm with the FDT company and we're down in the lab working on a developing a TCTO. The electronic cabinet is not behaving...so the lab technician pulls out his trusty rubber hammer and starts to indiscriminately pound on the cards in the rack. Chief Engineer is annoyed, "Now dam...it tech we're suppose to be highly trained engineers. We should be able to troubleshoot better than that. So out come the FDT schematics and after an hour or so of pouring over them the technician points to a specific card in the rack, "This one?" Engineer says, "Yep that one." Tap tap and problem is fixed.
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Post by Jim on Mar 16, 2015 3:27:50 GMT 9
Bill was working radar on Interceptors before most of the "Technicians" were out of nappies.
His philosophy, and most Tire Kickers of that era, was a simple one: Whatever it takes to get the bird in the air is what you do, as long as it is safe.
I would take Bill over most of the "Technicians" I dealt with. Jim Too
Well in the interest of full disclosure, one only need look at the faceplates of several LRUs in the Radar Rack to realize the tire kickers weren't the only ones beating on the boxes. Two stories:Story 1: Flight line...launch...redball for MA-1 problem. The MA-1 van pulls up and I step out to see the Crew Chief has already opened the radar door and is indiscriminately pounding on the boxes with his rubber hammer. "Whoa Tex...easy there boy..." I climb the ladder and the pilot shows me he's having a display problem. I come down, point to the 223 and tell the Crew Chief, "That one." One good rap gets a thumbs up from the pilot and he's on his way. Story 2: Years later I'm with the FDT company and we're down in the lab working on a developing a TCTO. The electronic cabinet is not behaving...so the lab technician pulls out his trusty rubber hammer and starts to indiscriminately pound on the cards in the rack. Chief Engineer is annoyed, "Now dam...it tech we're suppose to be highly trained engineers. We should be able to troubleshoot better than that. So out come the FDT schematics and after an hour or so of pouring over them the technician points to a specific card in the rack, "This one?" Engineer says, "Yep that one." Tap tap and problem is fixed.
Many, many years ago there use to be a cartoon called "SUSPISIONS CONFIRMED", we tire kickers could never figure out why it took an MA-1 weenie more than a year in school to learn what we tire kickers learned in 3-4 months...... So, we figured that it was to learn to talk in that secret language and draw pro-pay and earn a "Stateside Restricted Assignment Only Identifier"
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Post by dude on Mar 17, 2015 3:19:36 GMT 9
Many, many years ago there use to be a cartoon called "SUSPISIONS CONFIRMED", we tire kickers could never figure out why it took an MA-1 weenie more than a year in school to learn what we tire kickers learned in 3-4 months...... So, we figured that it was to learn to talk in that secret language and draw pro-pay and earn a "Stateside Restricted Assignment Only Identifier" Not so. The first two weeks was learning how to queue up for concert tickets at Red Rocks. Then came creative forms where we learned our three favorite letters...CND. Somewhere in mid-term we had a seminar with a guest speaker on the subject, "How to Mind F___ a tire kicker. (We all took copious notes.) Then there was the course on Creative Application of RF Energy on a Flight Line (a.k.a. Shake and Bake Your Favorite AP). The last two weeks covered a segment on sex in the barrel of an FDT followed by how to manage a 6+ figure salary after you got out.
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Post by ma1marv on Apr 26, 2015 23:14:20 GMT 9
AHHH YES!!!!!!! DUDE I hope you are coming to the reunion in October at Colorado Springs!!! WE need to talk!!! HAve a beer!!! You have single handidly given away SOOO many secrets of our MA-1 fraternity!! HEHEHE!!! The last comment was SOOOOO right on the money I had to laugh all the way to the fridge for another beer! Looking towards October! Oh gee - you forgot to add the famous "IAW TO 1F-106A------" Yep that was a fierce couple of weeks! MArv
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Post by LBer1568 on Apr 26, 2015 23:52:57 GMT 9
You forgot about the map reading lesson on how to navigate up lookout mountain to the 3.2% beer joint. Also how to get the free beer at Coors brewery in Golden. Most of the tour guides would tell us to hit the back stairs to the lounge without following her around. It was also a well known fact that the girls outnumbered MA-1 students about 4-1 in Denver. Lorin
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
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Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
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Retired: USAF NBA: Spurs NFL: Niners MLB: Giants NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on Apr 27, 2015 4:54:57 GMT 9
I'm sure glad Knuckle-Draggers didn't have stuff with lots of numbers we had to remember.
Many of us had to look at our Dog Tags to find out what our Serial Number was.
Drogue Chute was just that, not a number, as were the Tires, Brakes, Elevons, Rudder and all the other things thought to be essential to flying a Six.
You MA-1 Weenies, it was a number, to us it was the Control Stick, or the TSD, or the??.
I always insisted the Electronics guys put the name of the whatever they changed or repaired in the fix box on the Maintenance Forms.
The Aviators had no idea what some number was, and us Ramp Rats didn't really care to know what the number was, we wanted to know the name of the box or device you guys fixed.
Most of us functioned well using the KISS Principle.
But we Troglodytes had our own language, which we never revealed, not even to the Aviators.
Well, maybe the Maintenance Office or Chief of Maintenance.
They seemed very often to think like Tire Kickers.
Jim Too
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Post by dude on May 5, 2015 10:46:14 GMT 9
Don't worry Marv. I didn't tell em about BCD or the special door on the waveguide where we poured the magic in. ( ). Free Coors? Boy didn't get that memo. But my trips up Lookout Mountain never involved a beer joint anyway. (bada bing) When I was at Lowry we were told the girl/boy ratio was seven to one. I told them I wasn't greedy. Just send me five. I think that's why they called it Lookout Mountain. For some of them you had to look out the window during the wild thing. Hate to tell ya Jim but I also worked 18 months in job control. Every time the Chief of Maintenance came in, he would always ask the Avionics Controller (MA-1 troop) what was going on because the guy on the front board (tire kicker) was busy playing with the magnets.
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,075
Location:
Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF NBA: Spurs NFL: Niners MLB: Giants NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on May 5, 2015 11:23:58 GMT 9
Don't worry Marv. I didn't tell em about BCD or the special door on the waveguide where we poured the magic in. ( ). Free Coors? Boy didn't get that memo. But my trips up Lookout Mountain never involved a beer joint anyway. (bada bing) When I was at Lowry we were told the girl/boy ratio was seven to one. I told them I wasn't greedy. Just send me five. I think that's why they called it Lookout Mountain. For some of them you had to look out the window during the wild thing. Hate to tell ya Jim but I also worked 18 months in job control. Every time the Chief of Maintenance came in, he would always ask the Avionics Controller (MA-1 troop) what was going on because the guy on the front board (tire kicker) was busy playing with the magnets. Dude, the Control Rooms I worked in didn't use magnets.
We only had Grease Pencils to write on the boards.
They were afraid we would do something to cause the magnets to lose their stickability.
The Grease Pencils were pretty good for us, as it was hard to mess things up with them, and they were more like the crayons we used to write with.
Well, we could mess things up if we tried, but most of the time someone was watching to make sure we didn't.
We were not allowed to use pencils to write with, as the Safety People were afraid we might hurt ourselves with the sharp points.
Our MA-1 guy at Minot was a Surfer from SoCal, so was pretty easy to deal with.
He actually spoke English.
Well, most of the time.
I was fortunate at Minot, as Col. Chandler, Chief of Maintenance, was more interested in the aircraft than the MA-1 System.
He like to rodeo and flew the Six as fast as he could, and didn't feel he had done a successful FCF unless the Ramps had burn spots on them.
Ah, the joy of being a Sixer.
Jim Too
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Post by dude on May 6, 2015 7:19:12 GMT 9
Yep we had the pencils and plexi-boards. Above the main board there was a metal sheet with the flight line rows. There was a narrow triangle for each six and a another shape for a T-33. Each had a tail number. They also had some AGE magnets. There was also an LPT-1 DEC Writer for loading status. At the time they had started a 2 week Maintenance Control Course at Chanute and I got volunteered to go. Probably because I was a buck sgt and couldn't say no. So I got some more alphabet soup like TAT and Mean TAT and RATA TAT TAT. (OK I made that last one up). We had a couple DCMs, but my favorite was ole "Wild Bill" Mathis.
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Jim Scanlon (deceased)
Senior Staff
FORUM CHAPLAIN
Commander South Texas outpost of the County Sligo Squadron
Currently: Offline
Posts: 5,075
Location:
Joined: July 2007
Retired: USAF NBA: Spurs NFL: Niners MLB: Giants NHL: Penguins
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Post by Jim Scanlon (deceased) on May 6, 2015 11:38:54 GMT 9
Yep we had the pencils and plexi-boards. Above the main board there was a metal sheet with the flight line rows. There was a narrow triangle for each six and a another shape for a T-33. Each had a tail number. They also had some AGE magnets. There was also an LPT-1 DEC Writer for loading status. At the time they had started a 2 week Maintenance Control Course at Chanute and I got volunteered to go. Probably because I was a buck sgt and couldn't say no. So I got some more alphabet soup like TAT and Mean TAT and RATA TAT TAT. (OK I made that last one up). We had a couple DCMs, but my favorite was ole "Wild Bill" Mathis. At Minot we didn't have a Flight Line as such.
We had two large, double shelters that looked like big alert hangers.
So we had most planes in line hangers.
It made it nice, as we seldom had to have planes outside.
Not that it made a lot of difference, as the line hangers were not heated.
So, in Maint. Cont. we just marked location on the plastic board.
Lt. Col. Chandler was our DCM for all the time Jack Broughton was CO, and became CO for a short time after Brougton left.
Chandler was the best DCM I ever had.
Big guy, with a wicked sense of humour.
But he knew the Six in every way.
Superb pilot.
He flew fighters in WW2, P-38s I think.
Harry Sorenson might remember for certain which planes.
He took no nonsense from anyone, anyone, and was extremely fair.
He backed his troops to the max, if they were right, and defended them if they were wrong.
I doubt DCMs are able to function like they did back in the 60s.
Jim Too
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Post by dude on May 7, 2015 4:42:59 GMT 9
No its a whole new world. Our DCM was a stand up guy as well, which was greatly appreciated. For some reason some of the commanders where flaming AHoles.
Hangers...SWEET! The only time I was ever "reluctant" to work the MA-1 was when it was storming. Not fun doing alignments while standing in water under a leaky old canvas nose tarp thrown over the open MA-1 doors on both sides. Probably why many of us had certain parts memorized. Bet Marv can translate this: Load Channel 8 - then 15 504 - enter.
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Post by ma1marv on May 9, 2015 2:19:16 GMT 9
That is a very familiar sequence!! I could not find it in my old "BRAIN BOOK" or in my Dash-1 but I believe it was to put the computer into Lead Collision mode for testing and alignments. Give me a hint!! The brain synapses are not quit working as well as they used too! MArv
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Post by LBer1568 on May 9, 2015 3:09:09 GMT 9
Was that an input command on the old miniature tube MA-1 Computer or on the improved Hughes Computing Machine (HCM)-250?
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Post by ma1marv on May 9, 2015 12:42:06 GMT 9
LBER - That sequence was used on the new HCM-204 computer. The old MARK VII had the vacuum tubes and also had a similar sequence that was entered on the 296 unit. I remember doing it SOOOO many times! I'm still going over my old Dash -1 and my even older BRAIN BOOK to find it! MArv
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