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Post by Diamondback on Dec 20, 2011 6:12:53 GMT 9
Jim S, could power-to-weight ratio be part of it? With the B trading fuel tank for second cockpit, I'd bet that few hundred pounds lighter on the same power would help even if only a little...
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Post by Jim on Dec 20, 2011 9:48:36 GMT 9
Jim S, could power-to-weight ratio be part of it? With the B trading fuel tank for second cockpit, I'd bet that few hundred pounds lighter on the same power would help even if only a little... Entire fuselage fuel sytem wasn't sacrificed...... With JP4 weighing approx 6.7 ppg the loss of 110 gal = 737 # is balanced out by the weight of the structural components to make the cockpit, control stick,rudder pedals, ejection seat, radar system, instrumentation/navigation equipment, throttle quadrant, additional weight of the bigger canopy and more powerful canopy remover.... All of this accounts for the 1,495#increase in BASIC WEIGHT (empty) of the B over the A model...... F-106B
The F-106B, Convair Model 8-27, was a two-seat combat trainer version. Sixty-three were ordered on 3 August 1956, it was initially meant to be a pure trainer and designated TF-106B, later changed to TF-106A. Later that month the designation was changed again to F-106B when the USAF wanted full combat capability for it. The pilots were seated in tandem to avoid the problems experienced with the TF-102A, which seated the two pilots side-by-side. Some of the avionics were moved to the weapons bay. It retained full operational capability for launching Falcons or Genies. The MA-1 was replaced with an equivalent fire-control system, the Hughes AN-ASQ-25. The cockpit was higher (28.4 cm/11.2 in higher at its highest point) than on the one-seater to give the rear-seat pilot better visibility. The intrumentation is simpler in the aft cockpit, but the front cockpit's instrument panel is nearly the same as on the A. The side consoles in the front cockpit are less cluttered. Because of the larger cockpit, the fuselage tank behind the pilot that normally holds 858 L (227 gallons) only holds 442 L (117 gallons), but the wing tanks are a little larger. I can't verify the wing tank size.... Perhaps our new fuel systems repairman remembers....... More info here: preview5.awardspace.com/alexstoll.com/AircraftOfTheMonth/10-00.html The Old Sarge BTW, the basic CG of the B model was approx 30 inches further fwd than on an A model... CG fuel transfer going supersonic was also different... Will get some pilot's comments concerning faster bird.............. |
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Post by Mark O on Dec 20, 2011 11:47:08 GMT 9
I've read that a B-model could do that as well, but don't have the source.
I do recall reading that during Project Firewall Col. (then Maj.) Rogers was still accelerating as he passed through the ending point of the speed run course.
Mark
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Post by Jim on Dec 21, 2011 0:41:53 GMT 9
Jim S, could power-to-weight ratio be part of it? With the B trading fuel tank for second cockpit, I'd bet that few hundred pounds lighter on the same power would help even if only a little... Here is one answer: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: faster- 6A or 6B Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:50:38 -0800 From: Allan John Kelly To: Jim G <irishafone@q.com> Don't think so, Jim G. Each aircraft was like a race horse, different from the other. In the early days ('61 & '62), I flew a lot of Mach 2 runs, in fact, every test hop. One time, we flew four together, and we line up side by side, and every aircraft was different from the other. But, I can't recall doing one in a B model against an A model..... At Mach 2, every aircraft was wanting to go faster. One time, I took an A model out to Mach 2.5, and it wasn't wanting to slow down when I can out of burner. The bigger thrill was coming out of afterburner. Explanation of bigger thrill-Coming out of afterburner at high speed, caused rapid deceleration forces. More from flypapa: Maybe the guys that flew the B model at IWS would a have greater knowledge of the B performance in straight acceleration. I have heard the theory the B canopy had less drag. Probably true? Tom Woring would know. Merry Christmas, AJ ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim G
To: Allan John Kelly ; CAPT. BROWNSHOES ; COL. S ; dick stultz ; ted feasel
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 5:01 PM
Subject: faster- 6A or 6B
I keep hearing that the 106B is is about 100knots faster than the A.... Basic weight of the B was about 1500 # (last time I weighed either A/C was in 1963) heavier than the A...... Based on your experiences, is this true? ? The Old sarge |
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Post by Jim on Dec 21, 2011 4:59:02 GMT 9
Here are 2 more pilot comments, these from the 27th FIS...
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: faster- 6A or 6B
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:51:10 -0500 (EST)
From: TomGerken
To: MRoss849
I am supposing you are all ex F-106 people. I have the Dash 1 and it gives the basic weight of the A as 25,546 and the B as 25,986. With full internal fuel the A weighed 35,387 and the B 35,411. The A carried 9841 pounds of fuel and the B 9425. There were slight differences between the two planes in the fuel carried in the number 2 and 3 wing tanks and the transfer tank with the B having about 400 pounds less in the Fuselage tank.
I looked at the supersonic acceleration of the two planes the B accelerated a bit faster at some altitudes but they were very close.
A great airplane to fly.
Tom Gerken
In a message dated 12/20/2011 12:09:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mross849 writes:
Nope.
My faulty recollection is that they pretty much cruised at the same speed (maybe a handful or less knots of difference at Max L/D), and that the B burned a handful of fuel more (but not a lot of difference).
My friend Tom Gerken is no doubt expertly knowledgable and will likely interject if I am wrong (and maybe even if I am right . . . Smile ).
M. Ross
The Old Sarge
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Post by Jim on Dec 26, 2011 11:02:19 GMT 9
This from Capt Brownshoes (Roger D'Entremont 27thFIS)
had the A close to 2.5, although it was listed as 2.3 limited. It was so fast that the leading edges were crimson.
The AF tuned the engine power back because of kids like me.
I never tried that in a B, but I don't think the B was faster than the A.
Rog
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