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Post by Jim on May 11, 2011 7:48:13 GMT 9
Sorry Chief - but you are wrong. There is one rank higher than E-9. There is the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force who holds the rank of E-10. Any one of the enlisted today can achieve that rank - as long as all the squares get filled and they are basically in the right jobs throughout their career. Hey I was promoted enough times to be an E-9 - too bad that a couple of thoses were to E-3 - again!!! I will NEVER- NEVER- NEVER- have anything to do with a redhead again!!!!! I SWEAR! MArv No, actually Marv it's called E-9 Special now, not E-10. question??? When was the last time there was an aircrasft maint type appointed CMSGTUSAF? ??
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Post by Mark O on May 11, 2011 9:23:05 GMT 9
No, actually Marv it's called E-9 Special now, not E-10. A couple years ago the CMSAF at the time, Rodney McKinley, came to Dyess for some dog-and-pony show, and we had to go hear him give a speech at the base theater. Someone actually asked him if he was an "E-10". He pulled his wallet out of his pocket, looked at his ID card, and said, "Nope. It says E-9." I got a kick out of that. I don't remember anything else he said, but I do recall he was a crew chief at some point in his career. I had to look it up to make sure! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_J._McKinleyI saw the current CMSAF, James Roy, at the Airlift/Tanker Association drunk-fest, I mean convention, a couple years ago, and remember how damn boring a speaker he was. I was sober at the time too! Just plain awful! The best former CMSAF I ever saw/heard was Robert Gaylor when I was at the NCO Academy. That guy can really speak, has a great message, and is very funny. Mark
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Post by MOW on May 11, 2011 11:22:39 GMT 9
Yea, the DEERS/RAPIDS system only has the option for E-9.
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Post by ma1marv on May 11, 2011 12:07:19 GMT 9
Thank you for the clarification. :green-beer
I'm sure that with your position working with ID Cards, that you are 100 per cent right! I stand corrected! :salute
MArv :fire_missle_ani :patriotic-flagwaver
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Post by ma1marv on May 11, 2011 12:11:22 GMT 9
Thats a great question Jim!! I don't really recall any of them as being a wrench bender or even faintly associated with avionics! :scratch_head :scratch_head :drunk MArv :fire_missle_ani
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Post by LBer1568 on May 12, 2011 0:53:41 GMT 9
I never meant my post about "The Chief" to become a debate. The first class of CMSGt were on 1 Dec 1959 and as an act of Congress became the highest Rank. I wasn't in the AF yet, joining in April 1963.
CMSAF Paul Airey became the first CMSAF on 3 April 1967, having been selected while assigned to Tyndall. I knew him from their. He was also the only CMSAF to stay on active duty after his tour was over, and he returned to Tyndall AFB. Congress had to pass special act to allow him to wear the CMSAF Special Insignia following his replacement. The AF also made it mandantory for CMSAF to have at least 27 year Total Active Service so they would retire from Position.
CMSAF is now, and has always been, a Special Pay Category within the E-9 rating.
So I still say CMSGT was the highest enlisted position and is officially referred to as CMSGT or Chief. Within the E-9 rating, the CMSAF is not always the senior E-9, but is always the highest ranking Position. The CMSAF is also referred to as Chief.
I had the pleasure of knowing several of the past CMSAF including Paul Airey, Sam Parish, Bob Gaylor, Don Harlow and Jim McCoy.
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Post by Mark O on May 12, 2011 3:30:54 GMT 9
Oh, I don't think it was a debate. It's been a good history lesson actually! It is funny though, about one Chief being higher than another. That is true since we have "Command Chiefs" now. When they first came out we called them "Brigadier Chiefs" since they wear that extra star under the roofs of their stripes. Being the USAF, I think they had to create something similar to the Army's Command Sergeant Major, so they came up with the Command Chief Master Sergeant. That's just my theory, however. I tell you one thing I've learned about Chiefs. They'll eat their own (other Chiefs) quicker than any other rank in the USAF. I thought MSgts were bad when I was a Staff and a Tech, but realized it wasn't that bad when I made Master myself. Seeing, and actually having at least three Chiefs explain how cut-throat it is at the Chief level really opened my eyes. I guess it's because there are so few of them, and getting that better job, or especially a Command Chief slot is very competitive. Here's a link (first I found when I googled it) with the different insignia a Chief can potentially wear. Four in all including the CMSAF. www.18af.amc.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=9088Mark
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Post by Mark O on May 12, 2011 3:53:29 GMT 9
Thats a great question Jim!! I don't really recall any of them as being a wrench bender or even faintly associated with avionics! Well, I went to the Wiki page for the CMSAF, and I found that five of them were crew chiefs. Barnes, Pfingston, Campanale, Murray, and McKinley. Barnes was also a Flight Engineer, but according to the stories I've heard, he BS'd his way into that job and somehow got his wings, but his background was actually in engines/hydraulics. The best information I have is that he was what we call now a "flying crew chief" which I was for some time, but sure didn't wear wings then. I didn't find any that we would consider a specialist -- much less as specialized as avionics -- but Barnes being a hydro guy would be the closest I suppose. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Master_Sergeant_of_the_Air_ForceMark
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Post by signedposter on Jun 3, 2011 2:30:17 GMT 9
This is all really great information everyone. I've been offline for a while working on personal health issues and appologize for not checking in on posts here in this great forums. Well, I guess the only thing I can really do is to put the poster into a museum or whatever. It's in the original frame, I wouldn't dare attempt to take it out because of the way the paper below the poster with most of the autographs, is situated under the poster itself and I don't know if they used any sort of glue so I'm not taking chances of losing signatures as there are a few signatures about half way under the frame. The signatures are in both pencil and ink of various colors and are in fact authentic and not just some marketing poster like the poster itself was I'm sure but the signatures ofcourse are completely unique, real life authentic signatures and not just printed signatures in any way.
I wrote a few museums but they didn'twrite back maybe the poster signatures were from one flight or something, I know there were many crews and flights for the F-106. So I'm guessing this belonged to soemone who either retired and his flight all signed the poster or it commemorates some event that maybe few names on the poster are the only one's to consider it important. I just thought is may be a nice piece of memorabilia and I'm sure then there must be many more like this that are with original signatures, but maybe not so many over Mt. Ranier, anyway I must say you all here on this forum are excellent sources of information, very kind and I really do appreciate the constructive critisism very much. Maybe the signed poster then should then go to someone who I'm sure is still around and signed the poster by rights or whatever, I just want to be fair.
I hope you all very long and very comfortable futures, thanks again for giving you're lives and everything you have for our country just so I want to let everyone know I have the highest respect for those who served and those who stayed in longer than I for sure.
Phil Anderson
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Post by Jim on Jun 3, 2011 6:38:38 GMT 9
Thanks, Phil...... Now don't become a stranger to us...... Perhaps that picture should go to the museum at McCord, as that is the last home of the 318th FIS................... The Old Sarge
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signedposter
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Post by signedposter on Nov 12, 2011 6:23:40 GMT 9
I'll go ahead and send it to McCord Museum then, I really appreciate the feedback, this way I feel like the poster will be where it belongs then. Many thanks to everyone's feedback and opinions. Phil
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Post by Gene on Nov 12, 2011 7:29:23 GMT 9
hi there, iv just read all the posts involved with this subject and thought i'd throw in my 2 cents... that's a great shot of that flight of sixes... i think its way before i got into the lab in '74... it may have been taken by an AAVS photog. as a "stock photo" or it may have been taken by a really good "backseater" more than likely it wasn't printed in any great quanity, especial by any base level photo lab.. by a.f. regulation in the "70's anyway... i was very familiar with the process...because i wanted to get what was then called a "litho"... in those days any photo could be submitted to the information office... it would be reviewed at the base level... with luck it would be forwarded to the Command Service Unit at bolling... there, if selected would be printed out at a run of 40,000 copies... i was lucky and a little stupid because i bypassed the i.o. and sent a photo of the "freedom bird" straight to AAVS/HQ. at Norton. AFB. a few weeks later i got a letter from the office of the sec, dept of the a.f. / command service unit... it was from the head guy... i took that letter to the 318th/cc, ltcol. larry haight... he read it in my presence, looked at me for a few seconds and asked when i could be available to "take a ride"... he gave me 5 darts which included the "freedom bird"... i spent several hours in the back seat of a t-bird and shot over 100 slides both 35mm and 2 1/4 X2 3/4... i love a medium format over 35mm... after the mission was over and on the way back i changed the lens on the 35mm to a fish eye... that's what i use as my avatar on this site...it also won 2nd place color slide in the a.f. that year... i sent at least 40 slides that i thought were the best to include that fish eye shot... all came back saying thanks but no thanks... in desperation i sent another few slides to include the 2 bird shot that was selected... it was also shot after the flight of 5 broke off and went home... those 2 birds were actually flying a patrol mission...they got in line with my a/c and called over and actually said "hey, what about us??".. i changed the lens back from the fish eye back to the normal 55mm, clicked off several shots... it was selected for the lito series that year... 1976... i was told later that it had a second run of 40,000... all those shots i had left over were culls and can be view on this site...just click the 318th patch... .....
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Post by Gene on Nov 12, 2011 8:07:31 GMT 9
i dont think this has been on the site before...maybe the all great and all knowing master :-*can added it to my album on the main site
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Post by pat perry on Nov 12, 2011 8:38:50 GMT 9
Genej50,
Give us the links to the pics that scored a 40,000 print run. Thanks, Pat P
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Post by Bullhunter on Nov 12, 2011 9:37:27 GMT 9
I was given one of that 40,000 run. Its a great shot. Glad I know now who shot it. :2thumbsup I took it to our local copy place and had a few 8x10 prints made. I framed one and the other I sent to my friend Dale dressler who also worked in the 318th FIS with me. I left the 318th in the fall of 1978. Attachments:
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Post by Gene on Nov 12, 2011 10:15:18 GMT 9
note the old tail and new tail paint job...
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Post by MOW on Nov 13, 2011 6:58:04 GMT 9
I'm rebuilding the websites photo galleries starting with the 101st www.f-106deltadart.com/101fis.htm. Since the 318th is now in the spotlight hell I'll work that one now. I started with genes photos www.f-106deltadart.com/318fis.htmThe new photo gallery allows anyone to add comments to any photo same as some of my other sites. This rebuild is a work just started and a work in continuous progress, so be patient. I'm also thinking of creating a Moderator account for the new gallery that will allow the moderators(s) to upload photos. I know of a good dozen folks on here that I would trust with that, so stand by for more on that. UPDATE: In fact I just thought about it and I will make individual moderator accounts for those I give access starting with gene since I just added his photos. Gene, PM coming your way...
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Post by Gene on Nov 16, 2011 6:50:50 GMT 9
Genej50, Give us the links to the pics that scored a 40,000 print run. Thanks, Pat P need to print a retraction here... i just dug out that letter from the command services unit... it wasnt 40,000, it was 16000...but it did do 2 runs... so that a total of 32000...
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Post by RNoAF on Nov 23, 2011 19:58:50 GMT 9
Hi,
I am new to this forum. I am curently doing some research for some 1/48 scale Sixes. I am planning on doing all of 318th tail markings. Looking at genej50's photo with new and old tail markings, I guess the dark tail is the old one? Which colors did it have, and in what timframe did 318th use this dark tail?
Ronny
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Post by Mark O on Nov 25, 2011 12:36:46 GMT 9
Hi, I am new to this forum. I am curently doing some research for some 1/48 scale Sixes. I am planning on doing all of 318th tail markings. Looking at genej50's photo with new and old tail markings, I guess the dark tail is the old one? Which colors did it have, and in what timframe did 318th use this dark tail? Ronny Welcome Ronny! :welcome Well let's see. Dark, light, right, wrong, maybe, yes, no, sure. What period? What paint were they able to get? When did it come back from depot? Do you see where I'm going with this? Ya never know. Now that said, I was never in the 318th but I was in maintenance for a long time, and found out that things change. A lot. Look at any of the squadron pages, and you'll see a bunch of differences even during the same time period. You'll see differences in paint jobs in the same photos of several aircraft lined up next to each other. If you really want to do EVERY paint scheme the 318th had during its F-106 history, you'll have to make a bunch of Sixes! Plain tails, squadron insignia only, original "skinny" eight-point northern star, three-point star, three point star with or without external tank markings (subsonic or supersonic tanks), modern eight-point star with or without tank markings, curved anti-glare panel or straight anti-glare panel? Oh yea, Air Defense Command? 325th Fighter Group? Aerospace Defense Command? Tactical Air Command? Air Defense-TAC? 1st Air Force? I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but I do want to point out that there is a bunch of research involved in any squadron markings. Trust me on this as a long-time model researcher! I wish you the best on your project, and if you need any help, you've come to the right place! Mark www.convairf-106deltadart.com/318thFISassignmentPage.htmlwww.f-106deltadart.com/318fis.htm
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