Bullhunter
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318th FIS Jet Shop 1975-78
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Post by Bullhunter on Feb 24, 2021 2:33:05 GMT 9
Great art work. We saw a few of those paintings at the Imperal War Museum @ Duxford, UK. Plus a few at the National USAF Museum in Ohio.
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Post by Jim on Apr 28, 2021 1:31:26 GMT 9
I thought you old farts would find this writeup on the 104 2 b of interest. Bob Cooke
The Last Starfighter April 22, 2021: Some warplanes remain in service for a long time because they have unique capabilities that are not recognized until long after they are retired from military service. One current example is the American F-104 jet fighter, an aircraft that entered service in 1954, nicknamed “Starfighter” and some served with foreign air forces until 2004. The U.S. Air Force only bought 296 of them and retired the F-104 in 1969. A few remained in use by National Guard (reserve) units until 1975.
For the Americans, the problem was that its flight characteristics made the F-104 impressive as a short-range interceptor because the aircraft could fly very fast to a high altitude. The F-104 did this at the expense of range, maneuverability, and payload. As a result, there were a small number of nations that befitted from the F104’s unique qualities and none of them were in the Americas. By the 21st century, more than 60 years after the F-104 first flew, it was found to be useful for space flight research. An F-104 can get new SLV (Space Launch Vehicle) components to a very high altitude, very quickly so that the new component can be monitored in “near space” conditions. The flight characteristics of the F-104 was found to be useful in testing many other aircraft or missile components. The two-seat F-104 trainer can also provide a lot of revenue from giving civilians a brief flight experience in one of the more spectacular jet fighter designs of the 1950s. Some licensed pilots will pay to fly the F-104 as part of a program that gets them certified to pilot an F-104. This is a hobby with many pilots qualified to fly non-military aircraft but, because of prior service as a military pilot or just a love of flying, will spend the time and money to qualify in older warplanes. The F-104 is one of the oldest jet fighters that is still available for training and other services for NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration), which has long employed retired military aircraft for various tasks. Starfighters Aerospace, the only commercial operator of the F-104, was founded in the 1990s using three F-104s retired by the Norwegian Air Force in the 1980s but kept in storage. The U.S. has a large number of historical aircraft restoration groups and the F-104 was one older jet fighter that had not received much attention. That changed once the Cold War ended in 1991 and became history worth studying. Flight enthusiasts had been a growing group and paying to attend air shows where flight demonstrations of historical warplanes was a major draw. After the 1990s, Starfighters Aerospace found more and more demand for operational F-104s. As a result, Starfighters Aerospace is expanding its operational F-104s from four to at least seven and possibly nine or more. The F-104 was designed to be, like the MiG-21, a second-generation jet fighter. The F-104 first flew in 1954 and entered service in 1958. Most of the 2,578 built in the 1950s and 60s were used by NATO members, especially the ones in Europe who had need of an interceptor that could quickly get to high altitude to confront Russian aircraft. The problem with the F-104 was that it was a great interceptor in Europe, where the enemy bases were close, and time limited, to intercept. But for North American NATO members United States and Canada, air defense required fast jets that would stay in the air longer and had more time to reach combat altitude. It was hoped that the F-104 could be useful for ground support, but many were sent to Vietnam in the 1960s and were less effective as ground attack and interceptors than other jets. In the 1950s, it was still possible to design and develop a new warplane into service quickly. The F-104 was competing with several other new interceptor and multipurpose (interceptor and ground attack) aircraft like the F-4. The F-104 had become obsolete by the 1960s, at least for the USAF, about a decade after it first flew. NATO users found the F-104 worth keeping and these were not retired until the Cold War ended. The Italians were last to retire their F-104s, in 2004. In the early 1950s, the F-104 got a lot of positive publicity because it was fast, impressive looking, and the Russians had nothing like it. The F-104 was a 13-ton, single engine fighter with a top speed of 2,400 kilometers an hour. That was twice the speed of sound (Mach 2) and a max altitude of 15,000 meters (50,000 feet). Initial rate of climb, a key item for fighters and interceptors, enabled the F-104 to reach its max altitude in about a minute. For that reason, the F-104 was initially described as a “missile with a man in it”. There was some truth to that but, while guided air-to-air missiles could maneuver rapidly, they did so by generating G (multiples of standard gravity) forces that humans cannot handle. For that reason, the F-104 design did not allow much maneuver because a human pilot passes out at Mach 9 and missiles create G forces two or three times that while maneuvering. To obtain the high speed and acceleration, payload had to be limited to less than two tons, including an internal multi-barrel 20mm cannon. The payload was adequate for an interceptor, but inadequate for a fighter-bomber like the more maneuverable 28-ton F-4, which entered service three years after the F-104 and carried eight tons of bombs. The F-4 was considered a third-generation jet fighter. The U.S. is still the first to introduce successful next-generation warplanes. The American F-22 and F-35 are "5th generation" fighters. The generation definition was all about advances in the design of jet fighters. The first generation was developed during and right after World War II (German Me-262, British Meteor, U.S. F-80, and Russian MiG-15). These aircraft were, even by the standards of the time, difficult to fly and unreliable, especially the engines. The 2nd generation (1950s) included more reliable but still dangerous to fly aircraft like the F-104 and MiG-21. The 3rd generation (1960s) included F-4 and MiG-23. The 4th generation (1970s) included F-16 and MiG-29. Each generation has been about twice as expensive (on average, in constant dollars) than the previous one. But each generation is also about twice as safe to fly and cheaper to operate. Naturally, each generation is more than twice as effective as the previous one. A 5th generation F-35 costs six times more (taking inflation into account) than the 2nd generation F-104.
I first saw an F-104 in the fall of 1958 when I was at Chanute going to weight and balance school. It was about 9 Sunday morning and base ops was the only place to get a cup of coffee and a donut. The parking lot had a great view of the runway- you could see both ends. While sitting in my truck, drinking coffee, I see what proved to be the pilot and not an alien, walk out to the only plane sitting on the ramp (notice that I didn't say "tarmac" ?), walk around shaking things and then get in it. Strange- no ground equipment, only a TA guy standing fire guard. Thing starts up, taxis out to the end of the runway to my right, after about 5 minutes of power checks, here he comes- BANG- BANG-BANG- BANG and he goes vertical after maybe 1000-1200 ft roll and out of sight in maybe a minute- minute and a half. Never saw another F-104 since then. 63 years ago. Someone told me later that that missile had 4 stages of A/B. Don't know if that was true. The Old Sarge
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Post by Marvin Pine on Apr 28, 2021 13:56:04 GMT 9
We saw 104's quite often at Sawyer when I was there in the mid '70's. It was always a hoot to watch one taxi between two sixes parked wingtip to wingtip.
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Post by LBer1568 on Apr 28, 2021 22:20:06 GMT 9
We had a lot of F-104 come through McGuire and they would park in our area as Trans Alert didn't normally have resources to fix comm/nav etc. They were a bitch to see take off after dark. Just a single A/B lighting up the sky as they did max take off when leaving. We also had some come through Tyndall, but I think most of those were Nat Guard. We also had some come through Spangdahlem while I was there. These were German Air Force. Lorin
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Post by Jim on May 26, 2021 4:04:41 GMT 9
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Bullhunter
Global Moderator
318th FIS Jet Shop 1975-78
Currently: Offline
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Post by Bullhunter on May 26, 2021 8:04:14 GMT 9
You worked all the good tactical jets.
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Post by Jim on Jun 3, 2021 14:18:14 GMT 9
Figured this need to be out where visitors could see it as well.
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Post by LBer1568 on Dec 2, 2021 12:14:55 GMT 9
Sure had a lot of them, mostly near larger highways and autobans. Lorin
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Post by pat perry on Jun 5, 2022 5:04:52 GMT 9
I decided to place this story in this thread because it has so much history from our F-106 Forum members which was read over 15.000 times. Hopefully our Guests will benefit by reading this thread.
This is a short story about Wilbur and Orville Wright (who made sure we had jobs in the USAF) and the aircraft Carrier USS Kitty Hawk.
I have left out the URL links and just printed the text below because there were 31 websites tracking me when I read it and I don't want them tracking you!
Texas salvage company buys legendary US Navy aircraft carrier for one cent.
Story in text only: "It now appears that South Texas will serve as a sort of burial ground for a once-mighty U.S. Navy ship. The aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk – named for the place in North Carolina where the Wright brothers flew the first powered airplane – was towed to Texas this week to end its service in a marine salvage yard.
The carrier is a ghost from another era when ships ran on oil and when the world was a much different place since its launching in 1961. It played an active role in the Vietnam War during the 1960s and '70s and entered the battle zone again in 2003 when it served as launch pad for fighter jets and helicopters during the Iraq War.
But as the Navy began replacing carriers with those using nuclear power, the end was near for the Kitty Hawk. Several veterans’ organizations worked to allow them to convert it into a floating museum, but the Navy said no. Its fate was sealed when the salvage company in Brownsville, Texas paid one cent to take possession of the Kitty Hawk and sell off the metal for scrap. The company said it will take about 18 months to dismantle the ship when the Kitty Hawk will be gone forever from the oceans of the world, but likely will remain alive in the pages of history and in the memories of the thousands of sailors who called it home."
Pat talking: The salvaged steel from this ship will become new steel for new ships, bridges, and aircraft. Think of how much has changed in the world since Wilbur & Orville proved we could fly which resulted in the greatest evolution of military and commercial aviation, and U.S economic and technological power in just over 100 years.
We are now watching our children and grandchildren set our course for the next 100 years. Of course, we will be gone but we can only hope that we raised them well and that they will remember the history that got them in a position of leadership for the future.
Energy and technology got the U.S. to where we are today and that is the battleground our kids and grandkids must navigate for the survival of mankind on earth. We wish them well because their challenges are even greater than we had. Thanks, Pat P.
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Bullhunter
Global Moderator
318th FIS Jet Shop 1975-78
Currently: Offline
Posts: 7,378
Location:
Joined: May 2005
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Post by Bullhunter on Jun 5, 2022 5:51:51 GMT 9
I don't like the idea of the government selling the carrier for one cent. Would have been better to have cleaned it up and then sunk it to make a reef off the coast for fishing. Florida has done that and greatly increased fish habit and populations. The has made a big boost in fishing which brings in taxes to the state. Last carrier sunk I believe was the Uss Oriskany off the Florida coast. There is a video of it on the net.
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Post by pat perry on Jun 5, 2022 11:25:52 GMT 9
I don't like the idea of the government selling the carrier for one cent. Would have been better to have cleaned it up and then sunk it to make a reef off the coast for fishing. Florida has done that and greatly increased fish habit and populations. The has made a big boost in fishing which brings in taxes to the state. Last carrier sunk I believe was the Uss Oriskany off the Florida coast. There is a video of it on the net.
Gary, the USS Oriskany story is here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Oriskany_(CV-34)
The USS Kitty Hawk Story is here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kitty_Hawk_(CV-63)
Both were great ships, especially during the Vietnam War.
The Oriskany at 38,000 tons given to Florida on April 5, 2004, makes a great home for fish and divers at the bottom of the ocean with a bunch of F-106s. I'm all for that!
The Kitty Hawk at 61,300 tons will be cut up over 18 months and keep hundreds of employees on the job making steel scrap for more ships, bridges, and airplanes. I'm all for keeping these folks employed during some hard times with inflation.
Both of these ships were great but the Navy is using this metal to modernize its fleet. Thanks, Pat P.
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Post by lindel on Jun 5, 2022 23:28:58 GMT 9
The Navy (and the Air Force, Marines and Army) needs to worry more about what they've done to their troops than they do any hardware. All the hardware in the world isn't worth squat, if you don't have a dependable force to wield it.
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Post by pat perry on Jun 6, 2022 5:54:29 GMT 9
The Navy (and the Air Force, Marines and Army) needs to worry more about what they've done to their troops than they do any hardware. All the hardware in the world isn't worth squat, if you don't have a dependable force to wield it. Lindel, this story might allow the Navy/Coast Guard troops take another look at what issues they are having in recent years. I know they have some but it's time to take them to the top of the chain of command and get some answers. I know that a Navy Nuclear Aircraft Carrier deck is the most dangerous five acres on the planet. And that the Coast Guard is tasked with drug smuggler intervention. Being on six-month ship deployments away from family leaves their families without support for emergencies unless other Navy/Coast Guard families help out. I don't know many Navy Veterans except those my age (76) that I run into at the grocery store. They are all first-class guys. One told me Thanks for your service in the USAF. He was a Sea Bee in WWII and I told him that if it hadn't been for him we couldn't have landed a USAF plane anywhere in the Pacific Islands. The smile on his face was huge.
Ingalls Shipbuilding christens ship named after Coast Guard pioneer
Text with no URL Links: PASCAGOULA, Miss. (WLOX) - Ship sponsors busted a bottle of champagne for a celebration at Ingalls Shipbuilding on Saturday morning. The ceremony was to officially christen the Legend-class national security cutter, named after Charles L. Calhoun. Calhoun was the first Master Chief Petty Officer of the Coast Guard.
Vincent Patton is the first black master chief petty officer of the Coast Guard and said he knew Calhoun personally. “He was the greatest guy ever. He was stern when you needed to be stern. More importantly, it was the nurturing, parenting-type of relationship that he had,” Patton said. Calhoun was a master chief petty officer from 1969 through 1973.
The current Coast Guard’s Master Chief Petty Officer Heath Jones said by being the first person in the role, Calhoun set the standard for the position. “He masterfully took the way that we did things before then, took them to a new modern era. These are the things that I look to do with the Coast Guard for the next four years,” Jones said.
Officials said the ship features state-of-the-art technology so it can assist with both national and global security missions.
Wednesday, Admiral Linda Fagan was appointed by President Joe Biden as the first female commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard.
She said she’s more than impressed by how well the crews built the ship. “It’s an incredible workforce, great energy and you see that energy reflected in the quality in the ship that we will soon commission,” Fagan said.
Electrical foreman Justin Reynolds said the work isn’t easy to build the ship, so he’s grateful for the teammates he has. “It’s a very hot, hot, hard process. But we have some dedicated workers that come out here every day that give their 100 percent. It’s going to work out for everybody,” Reynolds said.
Officials said it takes between three to five years to build this type of ship. Thanks, Pat P.
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Post by lindel on Jun 6, 2022 9:42:41 GMT 9
I agree that prior Navy guys are ok, I know and have worked with quite a few while in the FAA. My comment relates to current military members, what with the LBGQT+ (and whatever other letters they want to add to that) fiasco. All I can see that doing is causing dissention in the ranks. Not something you want to carry into a battle of any kind. I see it creating far more problems than the left would have us believe...and our military deserve so much better than this kind of treatment.
As the old joke goes...I'm glad I got out before it became mandatory.
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Post by Diamondback on Jun 8, 2022 5:44:18 GMT 9
"Does this nuke make me look fat?" Mk 7 A-bomb, largest store the Scooter could carry. If memory serves it's pretty close to the empty weight of the plane carrying it. If you've ever seen an A-4 on the ground and wondered why it has those long spindly landing gear, now you know... lol
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Post by LBer1568 on Jun 9, 2022 0:08:25 GMT 9
Here is same thing with gear down.
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