mag1988
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Post by mag1988 on Oct 9, 2011 21:48:27 GMT 9
Hey, i thought this might be the best place to ask a question about the F-106 . I'm planning to build a F-106 in 1/72. The decals are for #59-0076 of the 49th FIS in Bicentennial colors. So my question is if i could build this a/c with the 20mm gun pack? Thanks in advance!
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Post by Mark O on Oct 10, 2011 10:25:28 GMT 9
Welcome to the forums! Well, I suppose you could. I've never seen any specific photos of 59-0076 wearing those markings, AND carrying the gun, but it was certainly capable of carrying it -- or should have been by 1976 -- so you should be technically okay with it. One thing to remember (and correct me if I'm wrong about this guys) is you must use the "tape-style" instrument panel (like you'll even be able to SEE it in the 1/72 kit!) -- not the "round-eye" -- and remember the blown canopy for any gun equipped F-106. As I recall that kit has the markings on the kit canopy for the framed canopy, although not blown, so you'll want to sand those frame markings off. (Super fine paper, then dip it in Future floor wax. Works every time!) Also, you'll probably have to scratch-build some of the details for the refueling receptacle on the Has 1/72 kit. Don't forget to file the aft tips of the external tanks to a flat as well. As molded in the kit they are distinctly pointed which is incorrect. Oh yea, don't forget with the gun, you'll have to rescribe the weapons bay doors too. (I'm sure I've left something out, but don't be afraid to ask! You come to the right place!) Now for a question. Where did you get a 1/72 scale gun pod for the Six?! I've seen the old Roll Models 1/48 pod, but never one in 1/72. Sounds interesting! Also, did you get the bicentennial 49th FIS decals from that dual, F-102/F-106 kit Hasegawa released in Japan, or are you making them yourself? Notice the kit decal colors of the Eagle on the vertical stab. That's one of two versions of that aircraft. Which paint scheme are you going to build. (Compare this Airliners.net photo to the above photo. Ya gotta be careful copy-and-pasting Airliners.net pics.) www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/Convair-F-106A-Delta/0803020/L/&sid=89f847f8f185d1e21268e6d38e43e13eGood luck on the kit, and don't forget to keep us posted with photos! Mark
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Oct 10, 2011 12:11:19 GMT 9
And don't forget photo's for the forum! That's the cost of admission for such detailed info :rofl A final finished version photo is fine but we would really like to see progress.
Oh and :welcome
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mag1988
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Post by mag1988 on Oct 10, 2011 20:13:43 GMT 9
Wow thanks for all that information !! So, just to be sure, you say the 49th FIS must have had the gun pods for the Six in 1976 and did actually use them by that time? Sadly i couldn't find the gun pod in 1/72...but my plan is to scratchbuild one using the gun part of an F-4E (if you compare it with the gun pod on the Six you can see they are pretty similar). I hope i'll be able to really put my plan into practice . I got the dual F-102/F-106 Kit so i'm going to use those decals because imho the colors red, white and blue match better than red, white and green So thanks again for the infos and thanks for welcoming!! And i'll definitely post some photos of my progress when i started this project!!
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Post by Mark O on Oct 10, 2011 23:14:56 GMT 9
Wow thanks for all that information !! So, just to be sure, you say the 49th FIS must have had the gun pods for the Six in 1976 and did actually use them by that time? No, I am not saying that at all. All I'm saying is it is possible. The project was tested in the late 60's, approved in 1972, and since 59-0076 had "tape" instruments, it could have been equipped with the gun by 1976. Was it? I don't know. Sadly i couldn't find the gun pod in 1/72...but my plan is to scratch build one using the gun part of an F-4E (if you compare it with the gun pod on the Six you can see they are pretty similar). Externally it's not really even close to the F-4E. The shape is much different. See this link. www.f-106deltadart.com/weapons_20mm_cannon.htmAnd on an F-4E. (I'm sure google will help you find better photos.) Notice on the Phantom it is much more "pointed" on the muzzle, and the difference in the vents to the aft. That would take some filling, re-molding the shape, and re-scribing the vents for accuracy, but I suppose it's possible. Check out these photos of the F-106 gun. Again, I hope this helps! Mark
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mag1988
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Post by mag1988 on Oct 11, 2011 4:56:34 GMT 9
thanks again! yeah you're right about those guns but i actually meant they should be close enough to scratch build the gun pod using the f-4 gun as a basis...but we'll see how that will work out one more question, were those gun pods permanently fixed once attached to an a/c or did they change the "carrier" a/c whenever they needed/wanted to?
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Post by Mark O on Oct 11, 2011 5:40:09 GMT 9
Yes, the gun package was removeable. When installed it took up the space normally allocated to the AIR-2 Genie rocket. The AIM-4 capability was retained with the gun installed, however. www.f-106deltadart.com/weapons_20mm_cannon.htmKeep in mind that the gun was not installed for the purpose of turning the F-106 into a fighter-vs-fighter dogfighter, but to augment the missiles for close-in attack of bombers, or when the bombers were in a low-level environment. Remember, the F-106 was an INTERCEPTOR!! It was never conceived, or designed to be a dogfighter. That said, could it be used against a fighter? Certainly. Now, for a firsthand description of the gun program you can click on this link, scroll down to reply #9, and open up the .doc file written by former Major John Mantei; the guy who actually tested it! forum.f-106deltadart.com/index.cgi?board=pilot&action=display&thread=849&page=1Someone else will have to give you the details on the specific installation of the package, but as I recall reading I think -- THINK -- it took a few hours. Mark
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Post by Jim on Oct 11, 2011 7:55:57 GMT 9
Yes the gun pod was removeable, however the a/c was not considered flyable because the doors had been modified.... Primarily because of the change in aerodynamics of the fuselage... Also, the weapons bay was no longer a sealed compartment... It has been a long time since I have been on the six, but I believe there was a designed air flow thru the bay for other components
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Oct 11, 2011 10:43:29 GMT 9
Mark - are those your gun photos? I'm saving them for inclusion on the gun page of the website and want to annotate correctly.
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Post by Mark O on Oct 11, 2011 11:07:46 GMT 9
Mark - are those your gun photos? I'm saving them for inclusion on the gun page of the website and want to annotate correctly. No, I did not take those photos. I remember finding them via an internet search when I was at Grand Forks AFB around 2003/2004. I saved them, and cannot tell you the specific site I found them on now, but if I had to guess it was off of one of the plastic modeling sites. If you notice the hair, and dress of the folks in the background you can see it was definitely the 1970s. At least I think so. Best I got for ya! Mark
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MOW
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Post by MOW on Oct 11, 2011 11:15:12 GMT 9
Mark - are those your gun photos? I'm saving them for inclusion on the gun page of the website and want to annotate correctly. No, I did not take those photos. I remember finding them via an internet search when I was at Grand Forks AFB around 2003/2004. I saved them, and cannot tell you the specific site I found them on now, but if I had to guess it was off of one of the plastic modeling sites. If you notice the hair, and dress of the folks in the background you can see it was definitely the 1970s. At least I think so. Best I got for ya! Mark No worries. If they were posted on-line in a forum they are pretty much public domain now so I'll just list them as such.
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Post by Mark O on Oct 11, 2011 12:19:31 GMT 9
Yes the gun pod was removable, however the a/c was not considered flyable because the doors had been modified.... Primarily because of the change in aerodynamics of the fuselage... Also, the weapons bay was no longer a sealed compartment... It has been a long time since I have been on the six, but I believe there was a designed air flow thru the bay for other components Jim, (or anyone else that might know), how difficult was it to swap out the weapons bay doors? Obviously they were modified for carrying the gun. It looks like it was just a piano wire configuration, with brackets, and actuators holding them to the fuselage. I'm reminded of the gear doors on KC-135s. I only swapped one of those off once, but other than the awkwardness of the procedure due in most part to the weight, and shape, it wasn't too bad! (Much!) The Six weapons bay door are obviously smaller than KC-135 main gear doors! Mark
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Post by Jim on Oct 12, 2011 1:00:22 GMT 9
Yes the gun pod was removable, however the a/c was not considered flyable because the doors had been modified.... Primarily because of the change in aerodynamics of the fuselage... Also, the weapons bay was no longer a sealed compartment... It has been a long time since I have been on the six, but I believe there was a designed air flow thru the bay for other components Jim, (or anyone else that might know), how difficult was it to swap out the weapons bay doors? Obviously they were modified for carrying the gun. It looks like it was just a piano wire configuration, with brackets, and actuators holding them to the fuselage. I'm reminded of the gear doors on KC-135s. I only swapped one of those off once, but other than the awkwardness of the procedure due in most part to the weight, and shape, it wasn't too bad! (Much!) The Six weapons bay door are obviously smaller than KC-135 main gear doors! Mark It was a HELL OF A LOT MORE than just taking them out of the box and sticking them on.. Best I recall, actuator attach points and even actuator rod ends would require adjustment..... Believe it took the concensus of 3 people who had RED X clearing authority before air was used to close the doors..... Believe that the rear actuators were different and the attach points in the fuselage were in a different place for the gun mod...........The gun mod came after my time so I don't have first hand experience on it.... Someplace here on the web there is Maj J. Mantini's piece on the gun..............
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